under saddle pickup

jimmans · #1 08-23-2010, 02:22 PM

bought myself Martin 000-15. Can anyone recommend a good under saddle pickup system including active, passive and preamps. I am hoping to retain as much of the unplugged sound as possible with the least modifications to the appearance of the guitar. Also will need a good guitar tech in the Philly/South Jersey area to install it.

mchalebk · #2 08-23-2010, 02:28 PM

There really aren't any under saddle transducers (USTs) that retain the character of the guitar. Under saddle pickups provide a lot more information from the strings than they do the body.

One system I am looking at closely is the new LR Baggs Anthem. It combines a special feedback-resistant mic and an Element UST. All frequencies under 250 Hz are handled by the UST, the rest is handled by the mic. There are two versions, both with soundhole mounted controls. The full-up model has volume and a blend (so more UST can be dialed in). The simpler version has a much smaller volume-only controller.

If you're interested, do a search in the Electrified!!! forum for Anthem; there are several threads, with reviews and install pictures.

jimmans · #3 08-23-2010, 02:46 PM

thanks brian. I still have a lot to learn about pickups. It looks like I am not going to get the sound I want with a ust.

GibbyPrague · #4 08-23-2010, 02:52 PM

Easy. Fishman Matrix Inifinity UST combined with a Fishman Aura DI.

mchalebk · #5 08-23-2010, 02:54 PM

USTs have many advantages. However, their biggest disadvantage is that they don't much like the guitar they're installed in.

In reality, the only way to get an amplified acoustic to sound exactly like the guitar unamplified is with a mic. However, those are problematic for live use (they really don't work for me).

As I mentioned earlier, I'm very interested in the Anthem, which is getting some pretty good "sounds like the guitar, only louder" reviews. Of other pickup systems, it seems like the K&K soundboard transducers have a lot of happy customers. I've heard some good sounding recordings, but don't have any hands-on experience with them.

L20A · #6 08-23-2010, 02:54 PM

Check out the K&K pick up.
It isn't a usp and will give more of an acoustic sound to the guitar than most usp's will.

jimmans · #7 08-24-2010, 07:58 AM

Thanks everyone for your help. I will take a look at your suggestions.

rhancox · #8 08-24-2010, 09:04 AM

If you're going to look at the K&K soundboard transducer pickups, you owe it to your pocketbook to look at the JJB Electronics pickups as well. Same product, just 50% cheaper.

I have them in both my 12-string and 6 string and they sound great. Very close to natural. These are passive pickups but you can add some "power" with a DI.

Minimal impact on your guitar as well. The only drilling you do is to the endpin hole, making it 1/2" in diameter to accept the endpin/jack combo. I installed the pickups in both of my guitars with no problem.

Plus, Jessie is a real stand-up guy when it comes to his business and handling his customers.

HectorHeadgear · #9 08-25-2010, 04:04 PM

I've spent hundreds of dollars and countless research hours and many a test-gig to try to answer this question. A lot depends on the guitar, and a lot depends on the gig. A lot also depends on how much tone you're willing to sacrifice vs. money, time and how complicated your rig gets.

My progression was from not being heard through a mic to a K&K pickup, then added an aura pedal, then went with a fishman UST, and now I'm using both an external mic and a pickup. I also go between a martin HD-28 and a '75 mossman great plains. I play between 40 and 60 shows a year, from coffee houses to backing up Patti Page, so I've always had a few months to really get to know each setup. And these are the words of wisdom I have to offer: YMMV

1) No matter what anyone tells you, no matter how they're marketed, ALL piezo pickups will have a piezo sound! They all sound different. The iBeam "quacks" to my ear, the USTs "quack" worse, and the bridgeplate/soundboard systems like the K&K have better dynamics, but have a characteristic "fuzz" to them. In my opinion, if you are looking to make a guitar sound good amplified, a pickup is a necessity but only half the battle.

2) Martins, especially the auditorium type, are relatively quiet and have super thin tops with thin scalloped bracing. This makes them very prone to feedback and wolfing, as the soundboard can start vibrating out of nowhere (especially if there are monitor wedges on stage), and I've had better luck with USTs in this regard. They ARE less prone to feedback, soundboard/bridgeplates ARE more prone to feedback.

3) Mics inside guitars feed back.

4) When you put a mic in front of a guitar close enough to get it loud without feeding back, the result is often times very boomy with a lack of clarity. It sounds acoustic and everything, but the guitar doesn't cut or attack like it does naturally. I've tried several different mics, condenser AND dynamic at several different venues and that's just how I feel about it LOL.

If I were you and you wanted to get any volume out of you guitar, whether you need it low for a small coffee shop or loud for a full stage in front of 2000 people, this is the approach I would take and the one I have finally arrived at as the solution: Get a good UST. Nothing fancy. I've got a Fishman Goldline in my Mossman and by itself it doesn't sound that great. But it doesn't feed back and I add another step: I put a good condenser mic in front of my soundhole, and mix them at the board so the pickup is under the mic by 6-12dB. The pickup provides the attack and clarity, the microphone makes the guitar bloom wonderfully and sound full like it should.

If you just want to run a pickup by itself, I would say a fishman UST into an aura pedal. I did that for a year and a half and it sounded pretty good. A little lifeless but a lot closer to natural than my K&K by itself. I'll give you this warning: my K&K into an aura pedal sounded funky. There were weird artifacts happening in the sound. I've learned that fishman works best with fishman.

I don't think anyone here is guilty of saying "a pickup makes it an electric guitar," but there are those people out there, especially in the Bluegrass world where I play. To those people I say a microphone is a type of electronic transducer, so are pickups. Don't let them get you down! You put a lot of hard work into playing well so you better dang well be heard.

Duncan121 · #10 08-25-2010, 04:51 PM

I really believe the best approach is to suspend ones desire to "try and retain their guitars unplugged tone" when they plug it in. If you read at all the accounts of vastly experienced players on this forum you'll know that nobody actually achieves this...Some will tell you they get close some will even claim they've done it but the large majority will tell you that a comprimise exist. So, save yourself the frustration and identify what parts of acoustic tone are important to you and your playing style and pursue those. Equipt yourself with some form of good EQ and a pickup that gives you tonal dynamics you need and start learning how to make EQ tweeks and deal with feedback. Eventually you'll find what works for you. As many have shared their are dynamic advantages to all the styles of pickups based on your style of playing..ie..fingerstyle to aggressive strumming...choose your pickup based on YOUR style of playing and learn to make your way around the pickups artificial nature..