Bigger sounding smaller body guitar?

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by dneal

So I’m really confused as to what you are looking for. You have a 000 sized, short scale 12 fret in the H12. If you want “the voice of a bigger guitar”, and that H12 doesn’t scratch your itch... I don’t think you’re going to find it.

I think you are right. My take-away is that the FB has as big a voice from a 000 size as I am likely to find. Frankly, I did not know this until we worked through this thread and had the benefit of the experience of those who contributed. I have played very few guitars and have little to compare it to, save for the ones I own. To be sure, I am very pleased to own the FB. The purpose of my post was to determine if there is a similarly sized box with a bigger voice. I gather that the answer is likely no, unless I have one made with that goal in mind.
David

[Paoli]

My Martin OM28V,with a set of mediums on,really barks

[Lakewood_Lad]

You could try one of these. It starts quietly, listen the whole way through.

Lakewood C32


Or maybe take a look at some Yairi guitars.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by Lakewood_Lad

You could try one of these. It starts quietly, listen the whole way through.

Lakewood C32


Dang. Double dang.
David

[Lakewood_Lad]

Sorry. That's the wrong link.

This is what I meant to link to.

The one in the previous link is the Yairi, which is pretty good too.

This is the Lakewood A36 - it's one size up from the parlour size (so might be too big for you) and it has Cypress back and sides. The recording aint great but you can get a fair idea of the tone/timbre and volume. I like it a lot.

[dneal]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

I think you are right. My take-away is that the FB has as big a voice from a 000 size as I am likely to find. Frankly, I did not know this until we worked through this thread and had the benefit of the experience of those who contributed. I have played very few guitars and have little to compare it to, save for the ones I own. To be sure, I am very pleased to own the FB. The purpose of my post was to determine if there is a similarly sized box with a bigger voice. I gather that the answer is likely no, unless I have one made with that goal in mind.
David

I've found that classical builders that venture into steel string guitars produce some amazing instruments. They seem to understand how to get the most out of a top, because there's not a lot of string tension to work with; and classical players are very discriminating in terms of balance and tone. ChuckS and I have posted that notion in the past.

I think that's why my Rein 00 is what it is, but the first time it caught my attention was with this Traphagen 000. Put some headphones on and give it a listen. This is my "one that got away". When I was ready to pull the trigger on it, it was sold.



--edit--

It's a mediocre recording, although you can get some idea of the sustain and overtones... Here's a video of my Rein when it was new, for what it's worth. I got rid of my H12 for shoulder reasons, but was ok with it mainly because of this guitar.

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by Lakewood_Lad

Sorry. That's the wrong link.

This is what I meant to link to.

The one in the previous link is the Yairi, which is pretty good too.

This is the Lakewood A36 - it's one size up from the parlour size (so might be too big for you) and it has Cypress back and sides. The recording aint great but you can get a fair idea of the tone/timbre and volume. I like it a lot.

Triple dang. That is as impressive a small body guitar as I have ever heard. Many thanks for the link and lead.
David

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by dneal

I've found that classical builders that venture into steel string guitars produce some amazing instruments....Here's a video of my Rein when it was new, for what it's worth. I got rid of my H12 for shoulder reasons, but was ok with it mainly because of this guitar.

OP here. The two videos you link would support your postulate. The sound from the Rein is sublime. Would you say that it is an accurate recording? And how would you compare, for lack of a better word, the "volume" compared to your H12.
I often wonder if a guitar that produces tones with great harmonic complexity and color, what I think of as "lush," creates a perception of greater volume. Surely, your Rein has that in spades. Thanks for posting.
David

[rjathon]

I am no expert but after watching Silly Moustache’s video about his new Eastman E20P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJIod3SeRt8&t=198s I bought a used Eastman E20oo on Reverb. It sounds beautiful and projects very well. Someone on the forum described one as a cannon and they are right.

Russ

[southbeck]

Taylor 322e 12 frets sure don´t sound small.

[Lakewood_Lad]

This one, by K Yairi, might be easier to find than the previous Yairi. They've stopped making them but there are still some around for sale as new. I nearly bought one myself over the weekend for just under £1,100 (had to slap myself and put my hands back in my pockets).

Here is the same model, different player.

It's called a K. Yairi NYOO21B New Yorker.

Also worth knowing that the Lakewood comes in two versions, the standard has what they call an AAA spruce top, the premium has an AAAA spruce top. I believe the higher quality AAAA wood can be made thinner and is able to vibrate more so it is louder and projects more sound and more complex tone.

[dneal]

Originally Posted by Deliberate1

OP here. The two videos you link would support your postulate. The sound from the Rein is sublime. Would you say that it is an accurate recording? And how would you compare, for lack of a better word, the "volume" compared to your H12.
I often wonder if a guitar that produces tones with great harmonic complexity and color, what I think of as "lush," creates a perception of greater volume. Surely, your Rein has that in spades. Thanks for posting.
David

I guess it depends on how you define “accurate”. It sounds to me like the stock mic on a phone or camcorder. But as far as the sustain, overtones and sympathetic tones; yes, that’s what it sounds like. It’s like it brings along it’s own cathedral somewhere inside and conjures up some extra reverb. You probably hear it best when he grabs a pick around 2:16 or so. The notes up, down and across the fretboard are balanced (or as balanced as you’re going to get in an inherently imperfect design).

I think Dake Traphagen’s guitars have the same characteristics, and “power” is what comes to mind when I listen to Al Petteway build up to the ‘chorus’ (when he strums the G after the Am, Bm, C, D build up). I also think the better (and closer) mic position hides some of the “reverb” that’s apparent in the Rein video.

Lastly, as to “volume”. In plain decibels, they’re going to put out what they put out, and it’s going to be similar. I think of, and look for “responsiveness” in a guitar. How much sound do you get for your level of effort? How easy is that to manipulate? In the case of the Rein, or every Froggy I’ve played; they’re ridiculously responsive (which is why I think we consider them “loud”). The tone of Froggy is a little more “woody”, and I like that too. The extra inch of lower bout width and deeper body just made it hard for me to play the H12 (I had adhesive capsulitis / frozen shoulder).

[Deliberate1]

Originally Posted by dneal

The tone of Froggy is a little more “woody”, and I like that too. The extra inch of lower bout width and deeper body just made it hard for me to play the H12 (I had adhesive capsulitis / frozen shoulder).

Nice analysis. I will revisit the videos with your thoughts in mind.
Sorry to hear about the shoulder.
David

[Maryc-k]

You can liven up a quiet guitar with different strings, and tone down a bass-ier one by swapping out the strings for lighter gauges. The key here is to give the guitars you have some time, get used to them, learn their qualities, etc.

I was a double reed player in another lifetime, and the time I spent fiddling around with reeds, cane, windings, shaping seemed unending. Picks, strings, etc. these all shape tone and volume. Learning to shape the sound of an instrument is part of the process of learning to play it. But then again, you probably know that.

[mountainguitar]

Hello David-

Welcome to the rabbit hole!! I think it's a wonderful place to be . There's so much that goes into a great guitar and each one of us has a different idea of what the perfect instrument would be. And I'm finding there are a lot of "perfect" instruments out there...

You've already picked up several excellent guitars. It seems like you're in the Northeast. If you enjoyed the Music Emporium (and it is an amazing store), you may want to consider putting Woodstock on your travel agenda. I believe it's the largest (or at least one of the largest) guitar festivals around and it's in New York. A huge space full of great luthiers with guitars they have built and that are available for you to try. Some of the best individual builders in the country attend (so not big name guitars like Martin or Taylor but people like Ben Wilborn who Nemoman mentioned above). I went once when I was first getting into guitar and it was quite an amazing experience. People are very nice and you'll learn a lot and be exposed to so much- people who build more "modern' sounding instruments, people who build more "traditional" sounding guitars, different woods you'll never have heard of.... And then the players are also very kind- like here only in person! It's in October.
http://www.woodstockinvitational.com/about.shtml

And then there is the Artisan Guitar show coming up in April in Pennsylvania: https://artisanguitarshow.com.

There is also LaConnor, which is supposed to be great, but it's in the Northwest in May. So far for you.

Or if you're wanting to travel, I believe Tom's on final call for the show he's organized in Texas. It's smaller, but more personal and a really helpful (and fun) place to spend a weekend. I went last year and played so many great guitars! Info here: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=560688

My best to you on your guitar journey!

beth