THE BOSE/FISHMAN A/B IS ON! 10/8 N. Dallas

[rmyAddison]

Originally Posted by Herb Hunter

Which version of the L1 will you be testing?

The latest version GC has recieved, if that is the model II then that's what it is, I am not familiar with Bose L1's, I do know there are two iterations and this is the latest.

Need to string my guitars and get ready, will post my results tomorrow, hopefully others will do the same. Later.......................

[cotten]

Tomorrow? ToMORrow? We need input NOW! Must have input, must have input!

Seriously, we're looking forward to your impressions, Rich, and that of others there. Thanks for setting this up!

cotten

[jlott00]

no kidding i was hoping to hear something tonight

[denny1948golf]

While we're waiting, lets play the guessing game. My guess is the Fishman Solo didn't kill the Bose, but edges it out. The Shenandoah comes in third.

[jlott00]

i think the SA will sound the warmest but i think the bose will win in coverage and the not being able to stand in front of the SA hurts,but if the sa can get as loud as the bose then maybe the sa takes it home, but ive only hear each one one time.if price was no option bose wins..but with the price i think sa..but theres a special on music123 $200 off any $1000 order...so im about to pull the trigger on the SA unless something comes back from the shoot out thats a huge down fall.

[endpin]

Was there, and I can say there is a distinct difference between the two with both on their "flat" EQ settings using the same source material. After the first A/B switch it was obvious that a calibrated Mark-IV set of ears was not necessary to distinguish between the two regardless of which one you prefer.

...am uploading short video clip as we speak.

[jlott00]

Originally Posted by endpin

Was there, and I can say there is a distinct difference between the two with both on their "flat" EQ settings using the same source material. After the first A/B switch it was obvious that a calibrated Mark-IV set of ears was not necessary to distinguish between the two regardless of which one you prefer.

...am uploading short video clip as we speak.

yeah i could tell a diff when i heard them this weekend, cant wait for the video...im waiting up

btw which did you prefer?

[endpin]

which did you prefer?

----- SoloAmp -----

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naAofH_2f3w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF2Q-fyvLWQ

[rmyAddison]

Good morning!

Well we had a wonderful time last night and I will have pictures to follow but I still have to keep my day job, so later on the pictures.

The evening was very informative, we had two reps from Fishman (Joe and Craig) and MikeTX from our forum owns both systems so he was our surrogate Bose guru. All told we had about a dozen folks counting everybody.

Before folks got there we SPL'd the Bose, Fishman and Shen Pro to 94 db, kind of loud but the room could handle it and we wanted some stress, we know all the systems can play "softly". We ran everything with the canned source EQ'd flat and did use a cheap $200 KRK sub with the SoloAmp for canned material, no sub for acoustic playing/singing.

The demo material was the East Village Opera Company (Le Nozze de Figaro) which is a bunch of classically trained young musicians who put classical music to rock, basically a rock band with bass, drums, 2 guitars, keyboard, organ, and a full string quartet, very dynamic material.

To be fair the SoloAmp needed the sub for the demo material which was extremely full range (why I chose it). We started with the Shen Pro which got compliments from everyone for sound but being a conventional speaker it did drop off much quicker at distance than the line arrays, I really only brought it for a baseline.

It's hard to tell with Endpin's video (thank's Endpin for taking the time) which is which (saying Bose before the switch or after the switch) but in the room it was 100% unanimous (and I think I talked to everybody) that the SoloAmp won this portion of the test. The SoloAmp was at least as loud, maybe more at distance and it was more dynamic, it provided better separation of the very sonically demanding Overture. To my ears the Bose with the EVOC piece was somewhat "compressed", it sounded good, the SoloAmp sounded better and the inexpensive sub covered the low end quite well. That everybody in the room I talked to, including GC employees, my wife and some walk ins preferred the SoloAmp is fact, the rest in this paragraph is my personal opinion.

On to acoustic guitar/vocals. MikeTX, myself and Jay from GC took turns playing both systems. We shared a fine old HD-28 with a UST that needed a DI and EQ, it had some honk through both systems, and also used a DC Aura that we got a pretty good sound with using it's build in Aura system. We also played my America's Guitar through an SM-81.

With acoustic guitar/vocals the difference is not pronounced (no sub for the SoloAmp for this portion). My opinion would be it's a personal preference for this usage, I still prefer the Fishman, but I can see some preferring the Bose, neither kills the other, they just sound "different". I would not have a problem calling this portion a "tie" or up to personal preference.

Then Mike, who owns both systems wanted two scenarios; the SoloAmp with a sub for acoustic guitar/singing, and using two Soloamps (no sub). Conclusion, no sub is necessary for this the intended usage, the Fishman guys are absolutely right. Then we fired up the two SoloAmp towers about 20-25' apart. My reaction was a huge smile, a wall of sound came at us, the soundstage was immense, not loud, just everywhere and like you were sitting right next to the performer. I fell in love with this configuration.

My conclusions. I now understand what the Fishman guys mean, the SoloAmp is intended for solo acoustic/vocal performers, that is it's niche. It is not intended (their words) for drummers, keyboard players, etc. hence no sub and the electronics geared to the solo acoustic player. They don't intend a 5 piece band to use 5 SoloAmps, not it's purpose. When paired with a sub and "pushed a little" against the Bose with the EVOC Overture, IMHO it much more than held it's own.

Both systems used for the solo acoustic player/singer again was a near push, although the SoloAmp was the unanimous preference last night with that particular group of people.

Finally we have to talk about cost, $999 versus $2500, pretty hard to ignore. And two SoloAmps are amazing at still $500 less than the Bose. I'm sure their are some Bose fans will will prefer their Bose systems to the SoloAmp, although Mike who owns both flat out said he preferred the Fishman. It's a moot point, play what you like. But if budget comes into play, or if you old school like me and would still want two systems (necessary or not) then the Fishman scores a knockout in the price arena.

Sorry about the longwinded post, I hope everybody gets a chance to play both and make your own minds up, thanks to all who attended and the Fishman guys for the T-shirts. Peace.

[Herb Hunter]

Surely, you can give us some idea of the size of the room. I'm not asking for exact dimensions. Would you guess it was, say, 15 by 20 feet or was it larger?

[soundman48]

Originally Posted by rmyAddison

Then we fired up the two SoloAmp towers about 20-25" apart.

Did you mean 20-25 feet apart or were they really that close?

[cotten]

AAhhhh, input! Verrrry interesting! Thanks to everyone involved. I'm sure this doesn't "settle" the issue, but is very helpful information indeed.

cotten

[KevWind]

Outstanding the efforts of all very much appreciated .. The videos thru my laptop were OK at best... When I would pull the video slider back and forth between the bose segments and SA........ At first : it seems as though the bose sounded louder, I am curious as to why with the SPLs being the same but at least at this end thru the laptop that was my impression. I am wondering if perhaps it could have been a function of the room sounds bouncing back into the Video cam mic, where perhaps with bose multi angleled speakers causing more delayed bounced info to be arriving at the The video cam position, as opposed to an SPL measuring device?? ( Rich , I sold Stereo sound systems in the 70s, I understand and agree about the volume level issue and concerns) EVEN though the bose seemed slightly louder, I suspect it was more a matter of the mid, lower mid and base freQs coming thru. Interestingly though, to my ears, that extra sound in the bose, sounded less distinct in the clarity of the dynamics. I actually preferred the soloamp Thanks again Kev
PS I also would like to know if the Duo soloamp set up, was 25 inches or feet ??

[jackstrat]

Originally Posted by endpin

----- SoloAmp -----

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naAofH_2f3w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF2Q-fyvLWQ

Arg! Don't think the recording did much justice to the Bose/Fishman units. Sounded like you had me at the controls.

With that said, if I had not invested so much in gear, I would be easily pursuaded to purchase the Fishman. Seems like an elegant solution for a very reasonable price.

Oh, and I liked the "rock orchestra". Sounds a lot like TSO (Trans-Siberian Orchestra).

[MikeTX]

Herb - I'd guess the room was 30 or 40 feet square, actually CUBE - very high ceiling. It was absolutely NOT wide-open-spaces either - jam packed with gear, a drum stage, PA stuff everywhere, 10 feet out is a row of mixer gear about chest height, then another rack of shelves of gear behind the listening area. A Guitar Center room if there ever was one! Actually though, fairly typical of a restaurant or club with tables, people, stations, etc all over the place. So while it seemed a little cramped for our small group of people, it was a fair room. And yes, the two SoloAmps were twenty FEET apart.

Rich - thanks for setting up the event - lots of work on your part, much appreciated! Nice to meet you, and your Mrs too.

For ME, getting to meet Joe Barbieri from Fishman live and in person was just great, and his associate Craig too. But knowing Joe a little from this forum made sharing conversation with him special. He is a very real, sincere, human musician, with a special job and position, and truly has the best interests of us acoustic guitar people highest on his life and work list. Great person, super guy. I thought their taking the time and expense to fly down just for this little event was a great testimony to their support of us acoustic people, and their product.

Now, MY impression? No surprises for me - I knew what I was going to hear. I regret that I did not get to "tune" the Bose or the Fishman - just couldn't really even try without "my stuff", y'know? I think I could have made both sound better, at least to suit me, BUT the settings used WERE very fair. The recorded music was an impressive, loud and dynamic piece, definitely showed that the SoloAmp could stay up with the Bose at high volume.

Equally, when we mere mortals simply played a guitar and sang, the SoloAmp filled the room very sufficiently, as did the Bose. The natural tone of the SoloAmp seems more warm and pleasing to me, but not to disparage my six years of great results from my Bose systems, just different, slightly to me. Bose is a company with however many (more) years of successful products in all kinds of sound arenas, but you also have to give credit to the Fishman company's twenty or more years of specialty and focus on acoustic instrument amplification. It shows! There's certainly place for both excellent products.

After hearing it the very first time, I never thought the SoloAmp needed a bass sub, certainly not for guitar and vocals, JUST as expressed from the start by Joe and Fishman. Rich confirmed this, and I believe his natural sense and original opinion was the opposite.

Using two SoloAmps in tandem DID sound wonderful, better than I expected. I still expect and hope that most of my solo shows are in rooms where only one is needed and very sufficient. But it's nice to know that's available when needed. I might get a second SoloAmp someday myself, but I can always set up the SoloAmp for me and listeners near me, and point a Bose the other direction - no doubt in my mind that will sound pretty outstanding as well.

Finally - my good people, fellow players...

GO LISTEN, FOR YOURSELF! Specs are fine, A/B comparisons are fine, other people's experiences and even opinions are fine, but there's NOTHING like hearing yourself playing through whatever gear you wish to evaluate. ESPECIALLY something seriously different than what you may be used to, like this SoloAmp. Whether that difference is against a Bose, or a fine acoustic guitar amp, or an audiophile rig, or a traditional PA - the difference in APPROACH is radical enough that it deserves, demands - to be heard and experienced on its own, by YOU. I believe that these fine American companies that have produced these excellent products should be granted a little credit for knowing their business and knowing what they're doing, and that credit should extend to the experience of actually listening to their product. Listening to an audio product - what a concept!

Thanks again to all involved and interested - it was a good exercise.

Best regards, Mike

--- Oh - one more cool note, for me - after the deal, I took Joe and Craig for a quick bite to... the Neuhaus Cafe, to show them the little corner where I use MY SoloAmp, and the first thing Joe said was "THIS is the room we built this thing for"! I liked that.