Dave's compact PA system adventures...

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I build BIG stuff for a living. Real BIG stuff. :-)

May be you should start to make a Real BIG amp first

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Wife would kill me, or I'd have to kill myself, if I spent $3,200 on a speaker.

How much did you spent on the authentic?

You have to explain her gently. You can't have the greatest guitar and sing through a crappy P.A.

Especially since your singing is your biggest asset.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Now my dream would be to have the time to:

* Find or make a stereo TA amulet. Because I really think the first 3 strings (EAD) and next 3 strings (GBE) would benefit from having a separate IR. With stereo IR, it would lead to 4 ouputs. It means I need 4 channels digital DSP but it's no big deal since many DSPs are meant for Dolby 5.1.

* Those 4 ouputs would be 4 speakers or 4 exciters ona flat wood panel and a Bass reflex tuned to the soundhole-box resonance of my D-18.

lol
Cuki

Cuki,

Have you thought about contacting Gary Hull at Trance Audio. Perhaps, the current Trance Amulet Stereo could be the basis for your design and you could work with Gary to expand on its capabilities?

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

May be you should start to make a Real BIG amp first







How much did you spent on the authentic?



You have to explain her gently. You can't have the greatest guitar and sing through a crappy P.A.



Especially since your singing is your biggest asset.

Will you come to my house and negotiate for me? Please? :-)




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[martingitdave]

Went to GC and spoke to a manager. They were very friendly and helpful, as usual. I find the staff at my local store to be very good. As I suspected, they needed to do an in store credit or exchange. He suggested that the noise is a result of the lower cost power supply. Who knows? Seems like a reasonable explanation. He suggested I avoid exchanging for another Harbinger, as I wouldn't be happy. I wonder if they got more than one return? He offered to apply the 20% friends and family coupon I had to a new unit for my trouble.

I went back to the sound room and tested the JBL Eon One. It's funny how bias confirmation can challenge your objectivity. When I wanted to save the money, I found plenty of reasons to like the Harbinger and dismiss the JBL and Bose. Given the opportunity to start from scratch, with a discount, I guess I paid more attention. All of the more expensive units sounded better this time. :-)

A few things struck me when I demoed the JBL again.

1. It's made surprisingly well for $1000 retail price. Rugged, great handle, good balance, thoughtful design.

2. I misspoke about the mixer. I recalled only RCA and 1/8" inputs for the two stereo channels. There are, in fact, balanced 1/4" inputs for 3/4. I ordered two XLR female to TRS balanced cables to hook up the mixer or play acoustic. It's amazing how cheap this stuff can be on Amazon. I can push the output gain on the mixer or pedal to whatever the line preamp needs to see. Problem solved. I don't need 118dB anyway.

3. If I use channels 3/4 with the TC Play Acoustic or mixer, I'm still left with two built in mixer XLR channels, stereo Bluetooth or an Aux. Heck, I'll have 12 inputs on the mixer. 2 inputs on the pedal, and one XLR and Aux/Bluetooth still open. All through a 10" speaker. Yeah right! I'd like to test it though. Anyone have 14 backup singers I can borrow, along with 12 SM58s?

I think I was wrong about this unit. It sounds good and seems to have enough features. A low cut would still be nice, but I have that covered other ways.

Henceforth, I too am on the JBL Eon One bandwagon.


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[Paultergeist]

It is fun to be carried along vicariously on this journey.

Just curious, Dave, if you were able to consider the Maui 5 as one of your candidates? The smaller footprint along with other features has it at the top of my list, but I ave yet to hear it -- or the Eon One -- this far....?

[martingitdave]

Paul, you and member NotValid are both interested in the Maui 5. Had they sold that model, it would have been on my list. It looks fine to me. In fact, I like the mixer layout. Cuki said it got a less than glowing pro sound review, but I can't read French very well, so I have to take his word for it. :-). On the other hand, another member in Mexico (name escapes me) bought The Maui 5 for himself and another for the bar owner of the place they frequent. Everyone loves it, according to his reports. So, I suspect it's another good competitor to the L1C. I think the JBL design was intended to compete with the basic L1S at a lower price point with more built in features.


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[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

Cuki,

Have you thought about contacting Gary Hull at Trance Audio. Perhaps, the current Trance Amulet Stereo could be the basis for your design and you could work with Gary to expand on its capabilities?

Hi SpruceTop

I doubt Gary Hull has time to waste with my audio DIY stuff and Audiosprockets and Fishman have patents already.

Thanks for the suggestion Ken. If I ever jump into thise rabbit hole, I will definitely contact Gary our Maury to get a TA amulet (it's nearly impossible to buy one in Europe). But probably I'd first try to make my own pickup taking from Dazzo and Trance Audio. The Dazzo - Ehrlund design clearly enable to have flat piezo response from the Ehrlund measurements (european patent), so if I include that in a 3-D box, I may get rid of the tiny piezo signature sound you always hear in the Amulet. Of cours I will probably fail to make something good enough to compete with commercial product... But the fun is more about the project than the end product.

Cuki

[martingitdave]

I used the JBL Eon One at home this weekend. The industrial design of this unit is excellent. While everyone was out of the house, I did a test with Cuki's files, through Bluetooth, and had the SPL up to 109 with no obvious clipping. Main volume was only at 50%. I don't think the reports of it being a quiet speaker are entirely correct. I thought it sounded good at that volume. Gain staging is important. I used the XR12 Air mixer extensively. That's a great piece of kit, as our UK friends would say. I also hooked up the DBX goRack. That's also nice piece of gear, if only for the preamps, mute switch, low cut, and anti-feedback. If you don't have a mixer, that $30 box is a life saver. It compliments the JBL nicely, which lacks those features. I'm very satisfied with this speaker. I don't foresee needed anything more, or anything different. The roller bag also arrived. It too is well designed. I assume it will hold up over time.


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[leew3]

Dave,
Thanks again for 'taking one for the team' you've saved all of us countless hours of experimenting on our own. I especially appreciate your willingness to use quantifiable data as a means of more objectively rating gear. That I've considered the JBL system and you like it doesn't hurt either!

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by leew3

Dave,

Thanks again for 'taking one for the team' you've saved all of us countless hours of experimenting on our own. I especially appreciate your willingness to use quantifiable data as a means of more objectively rating gear. That I've considered the JBL system and you like it doesn't hurt either!

You're welcome. I like to experiment, learn and share. I wasn't planing on the JBL, but that's how it worked out. And, I'm glad it did. I never personally owned a JBL product before, but I'll consider them for the future. Our club actually owns their passive loudspeakers. They have held up extremely well.


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[necrome]

I'm appreciating all this information as well and it's definitely a great help for my future considerations! Like what you sirs have mentioned earlier, there must be something out there in someone's research lab that's what we all are looking for, except they know the market isn't financially ready for it yet

In the next 10 years I'm hoping to finally see battery operated portable PAs that can have the volume, clarity and reach of Bose's L1Mk2 at only half its current weight and price. It'll be a great time for performing!

[TheShadowKnows]

Originally Posted by necrome

I'm appreciating all this information as well and it's definitely a great help for my future considerations! Like what you sirs have mentioned earlier, there must be something out there in someone's research lab that's what we all are looking for, except they know the market isn't financially ready for it yet

In the next 10 years I'm hoping to finally see battery operated portable PAs that can have the volume, clarity and reach of Bose's L1Mk2 at only half its current weight and price. It'll be a great time for performing!

Carvin makes a 'portable' P.A. that's battery powered. It's not an array like you're hoping for, but some reviews here say it's pretty good for what it does. It's called an S600B / Stagemate. It goes on a stick & you can get the non-battery version as well.

It's 'sort of' an array with 4 speakers in the vertical & a woofer behind them. Has a great mixer it seems. That's probably what we get for now in the real world. But since Bose & Harbinger make those very light arrays (L1C / MLS800), there's no reason why they couldn't plop a battery in them & call it good. But like you said, the market probably isn't ready for that level of portability just yet.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by TheShadowKnows

there's no reason why they couldn't plop a battery in them & call it good.

I thought the battery was the limitation... 320W it's a lot (and I suppose Class-D amp run t full efficency). I mean it can work few hours... But you have to charge it right away.

Also most batteries have to be recharged once in a while.

You can't leave the thing unplugged for 6 months and expect it to work readly at full potential.

Many people would buy it thinking it's cool, then forget about the battery and complain when it's dead.

Cuki

[martingitdave]

Well folks, I'm very pleased with the tone of this JBL system with the XR mixer and Play Acoustic. Frankly, there are some many ways to hook up the system it's overwhelming. I need more people to play with! I'm getting more confident with the mixer and I hoping to get some live use with a larger group soon.

The JBLs are on sale for about $800 to $900 online. That's a great deal on a great system.

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[gfa]

Glad to hear you are settling into a happy place with your system. Although, I guess that means the rest of us may not be getting more demo reports from you!