Terrible NGD: thinking of giving up on Taylor guitars

[GSM]

Originally Posted by The Growler

Okay. I missed that. Looking at the pictures you posted though, that guitar doesn't look new to me.

Hopefully, the new one is what you're looking for. I've played a bunch and own four and never heard or seen what you've been through. I hope it works out for you.

Yeah, I didn't even realize all those little dents in the fretboard near the soundhole until I viewed it throught macro camera lens picture (posted above), it doesn't look that bad in person, or my eyesight is getting worse in my old age. I used a flash, and it really highlights the imperfections, probably making it looks worse than it is, but it's still not good. I do think it's new though, it was packed all sealed tight in the Taylor Packaging.

My Mexican Martins are AWESOME, I just want to reiterate that. I'm not against Mexican made guitars at all. Maybe just MIM Taylors.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by GSM

...I'd much rather get a "factory fresh" guitar, than one that's been touched by strangers. I figured Taylor had already inspected it. Is some guy who works at a shop better than the inspector that works at Taylor? Maybe...

Two sets of eyes, and ears are better than one. Mistakes can happen, when they do it's best they are discovered before the guitar is shipped to a customer.

[GSM]

Originally Posted by Ted @ LA Guitar Sales

Two sets of eyes, and ears are better than one. Mistakes can happen, when they do it's best they are discovered before the guitar is shipped to a customer.

Okay, Ted. YOU seem to get a lot of good props here, so I would trust YOU since I joined this forum and have read good things about your service. I should have bought from you, but I make mistakes too.

I would rather have it inspected by someone that I TRUST. If I don't know of that person, I'd rather them not touch it (the last 50-point inspection from SweetWater was a joke).

So yeah, I'm learning how to shop on the internet. The last time I was in Guitar Center I saw some little kid literally PUNCHING the guitars, and that's why I tried my luck with the online thing, figuring they'd be less handled by kids and abusive jerks. AND I trusted Taylors, as they are known for great playability right out of the box.

My new stance is that Martin's Mexico factory ROCKS! And Taylor's Mexico factory SUCKS! (just in my very limited experience, but it's what I have to go on) I still dream about those (more expensive) Taylors that made me LOVE the brand in the first place. I convinced my friend to by a $3500 Taylor about 7 or 8 years ago, and it was AWESOME. I want one like that, but thought I could save some money going Mexican. I'm gonna call them back and tell them I don't even want to exchange it, I'll just return it and buy a US-Taylor to avoid this nonsense.

[Ted @ LA Guitar Sales]

Originally Posted by GSM

Okay, Ted. YOU seem to get a lot of good props here, so I would trust YOU since I joined this forum and have read good things about your service. I should have bought from you, but I make mistakes too.

I would rather have it inspected by someone that I TRUST. If I don't know of that person, I'd rather them not touch it (the last 50-point inspection from SweetWater was a joke).

So yeah, I'm learning how to shop on the internet. The last time I was in Guitar Center I saw some little kid literally PUNCHING the guitars, and that's why I tried my luck with the online thing, figuring they'd be less handled by kids and abusive jerks.

While I agree that not buying from me is a mistake, that was not my point, I was simply suggesting that having a dealer do an inspection is better than not. Taylor has hundreds of fantastic dealers that are capable inspecting a guitar without damaging it.

As for GC, before I was a dealer I bought plenty guitars from them, and every new guitar I had to special order was left sealed until I could come pick it up for obvious reasons. If they were shipping the guitar to me I would have wanted them to inspect it before shipping it off.

[GSM]

I'll just add that the rest of my order was great. It's still a NGD for me. I got this little Epiphone (made in Indonesia) 1964 re-issue cheap thing, that I like a lot (TINY nut though, gonna take some getting used to).

I also got this SWEET Blackstar HT-5RS 5 watt all-tube mini full stack (but it's not really acoustic related, but it's so freakin killer tone monster) and an Ampeg Micro-CL that I use as an acoustic amp (and for bass too) and it's awesome. I also received a cheap Ibanez PCBE12MH acoustic small-bodied bass guitar, that sounds WAY better than I expected, more low-end than bigger bodied Martin acoustic basses I've played in stores (and it's all laminate!) it plays great unplugged, but the pick-up is pretty bad when it's plugged in. The G-string was WAY louder than the rest, so I examined the saddle. It wasn't even close to being square-flat on the bottom, so I had to sand it down. It's better now, but still not good.

The cheap Ibanez has imperfections all over it, looks like someone filled a chunk with some putty too, but I'm not complaining because it was peanuts compared to the Taylor. I was actually expecting WORSE, so I was pleasantly surprised. I had to adjust the truss-rod on the Ibanez Acoustic Bass too, a little, but I really like it now.

So, it's not a "terrible" NGD, I overreacted a bit. It's just that the Taylor left something to be desired, but all the rest of the stuff is tits!

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by GSM

I have always wanted a Taylor. Last month, I got my first one, a GS Mini-e RW, I ended up returning it because of poor fit & finish. The fretboard stuck out past the nut, creating a sharp ridge that none of my cheaper guitars have. It also lacked sustain.

I decided I should upgrade to a better Taylor, so I ordered a 214ce BLK DLX. It arrived today, and I was jumping up and down with joy, until I opened that heavy case's lid.

The first thing I noticed was one of the surface-transducers was just hanging there, not attached (to the soundboard?) anywhere, just flopping around. Then I noticed there's a bunch of debris inside, rattling around when the guitar is moved. Okay, I'll just look on the internet and try to find the placement of this loose transducer and re-stick it, I thought.

Then I noticed glue all over the fretboard at the higher frets. Seems like some sloppy work, since my el-cheapo guitars are much cleaner.

I let the guitar acclimate to my home's climate for a couple hours, but this has the worst factory set-up I've ever encountered. Buzzing everywhere, and no low-end. Even my Little Martin blows this thing out of the water with its low-end response. I mean, it sounds worse than a laminated hundred dollar guitar. (the highs and mids sounded good, but this large body has no low-end. None. Hmmmm. Let me plug it in.

Hum. Tons of static and hum and buzz coming from this fancy Expression System. I've read about others contacting Taylor with this issue, and Taylor sends them something to fix it, but that was the icing on the cake.

I really WANTED to love this guitar, thought it was going to be my Holy Grail, but this one went straight back into its box and it's going back. The GS Mini sounded SO MUCH better than this pig too.

Here's the kicker. The high-E string is right on the edge of the frets around the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th frets. Sure enough, my finger keeps slipping off the end of the fretboard, killing the chord when I play a D-Major chord, for instance. I thought, that's weird, maybe I just need to be more careful, but it keeps happening. I cannot fret the high-E string without it "falling off" the fretboard about 80% of the time. Worthless.

I checked all my other guitars, and they all have a "normal" amount of fret-room, so my fingers don't fall off. This 214ce BLK DLX is totally jacked up.

So, would the third time be the charm? Did I still not spend enough to get a PLAYABLE guitar? My el-cheapo Martin OMXAE is frickin PERFECTLY built, and I can't find any issues with it at all. Using the same cable, and amp, plugging the Martin in and it was dead-silent (no hum/buzz/static), at less than half the cost of this Taylor. I'm so disappointed. C'mon, Taylor - I've given you two fighting chances, and you've really let me down.

"Did you contact Taylor/the place you bought it from before complaining on this public forum?" - Um, no. It's being returned, and this is my way of "contacting" them. I'm sorry if that bothers (most of) you.

I'm not giving them another chance, at least not the factory that creates these lower-end examples. Bad workmanship, to say the least.

You might think nothing would make me happy, but that's just not true. I'd have been happy if my finger wouldn't keep falling off the fretboard, making it not even playable. If I didn't have (much) cheaper guitars to compare it to and blowing this Taylor away in every aspect, I might not have been so concerned.

So, is their quality falling in recent years? A Taylor has always been my grail guitar, but this experience has left a sour taste.

My serious question is: Would I have better luck with an American-Built version, made 40 miles north of their Mexican factory? Or should I look for an older, used one?

I'm never buying another MIM Taylor, and I'm reconsidering if I should even bother with the more expensive USA versions at this point. What a huge buzz-kill today.

(It does LOOK nice, from afar) I'm imagining I'll get flamed for complaining about my experience here, but I just had to post my experience. Sorry if I offended anyone, but I blame the manufacturer for letting me down. Again.

Not a huge Taylor fan but my GS Mini has sure grown on me over the last four months... The great sustain and better than average setup are two of the GS Mini's strong points... Have tried many other Taylor models. Although they aren't all for me, the new 800 series are exceptional.

I agree with those who say find a retailer lets you try before you buy.

[Taylor007]

The pics posted indicate a total hack of a job.
I would have sent it back for sure.

[Garrison314]

Get a used 300 series.

[PTC Bernie]

If I can make a suggestion? GC seems to have more than a few NOS Taylor DN3's and DN4's. For about the same money as ive seen 200 series Taylors, you can get into an all solid wood guitar of much better construction and quality.

I not sure if you have a GC nearby, but it's worth considering.

Not to be biased, but I have seen many quality issues come out of Mexico, in this and other types of products. Sorry, just my opinion.

[Jerry D]

I find it impossible to believe that Taylor would have allowed any guitar (MIM included) to leave the factory as described by the OP. Something on down the line (dealer) sounds fishy to me.

[NOTP]

Haha... I saw the OP's topic title and I chuckled to myself, thinking of giving up hunting for those inexpensive solid-top Yamaha and Seagull guitars based on my less-than-stellar batting average with them, despite the AGF's high regard for Yamaha and Seagull's consistency and value. This includes a NGD Yamaha that turned out to be a lemon that needs a NECK RESET because I got greedy and my wallet was itching to open itself up for the first guitar that came along. But, MAYBE I should give more Yamahas and more Seagulls another chance. I do try to keep an open mind... the past does NOT always predict the future...

I am the opposite with Taylor; every one I've touched and played has been a home run (with a couple being grand slams) except for the GS Mini which I recently acquired and flipped because I couldn't figure out why the low E string's intonation was a little bit off.

I don't want to admit to something as superficial as "brand loyalty", but the reality is that we DO gravitate towards a brand/service with a proven track record. Why else would you keep eating at a certain restaurant if your initial experiences weren't favorable, or keep buying a certain brand's shoes based on how comfortable/stylish they are, etc.?

For me, I rely on Levi's jeans not to fall apart on me even after ten years of wearing them. I exclusively trust Nike's sneakers; I'm sure Adidas or Reebok or whoever else also makes well-built athletic footwear but I stick with what I know because I expect a certain "something" from a pair of Nike shoes out of the box, and that "something" is evident in the shoes I buy from them.

For guitars, I know I can generally trust Taylor for acoustics and Jackson for electrics, as these happen to be the brands I have tried out the most based on their abundance of low-end models, mid-range models, and high-end models in my area. My experiences with these brands tell me that I would not hesitate buying any Taylor or any Jackson blind, because for me it's difficult to encounter lemons from these companies due to their high consistency, and I know what to expect from them like a trusty pair of Levi's jeans or Nike shoes. My first Taylor and my second Jackson were ordered blind from sellers online a decade ago and both of them are grand slams. Since then, I have owned/played many more that were at least home runs, and am always on the prowl for more grand slams.

Obviously I am just one person and his collective experiences with certain brands, but certain brands have earned my trust. I am sure this is why other people are loyal to their own preferred brands too, and have biases towards other brands. OP obviously has reported something that, to me, it outside of "my" personal paradigm based on my good experiences with the Taylor brand.

[mrgraveline]

Yikes... the transducer pickup is the most bothersome thing I saw here.. The string issue really didn't look bad to me. The glue/scratches, is likely barely noticeable in person...

I own 3 MIM Taylors, all exceptional. One was ordered via the Internet (GS Mini Mahogany top), no problems, but it had been opened and photographed by the dealer.

They build WAY too many guitars in Mexico and there are WAY too many positive reviews all over the world for this to be the norm... BUT, you have pulled some of the short straws....

Get out to a store and try some first... Check the fit and finish, even if you still don't want to buy one "off the rack", I think you will eventually come to the conclusion you had some bad luck with a normally fantastic brand.

[NOTP]

Originally Posted by mrgraveline

The string issue really didn't look bad to me.

The photo of the strings doesn't look that bad to me either, but we're not the ones actually putting OUR fingers to the strings to make contact with THOSE frets on THAT guitar. OP states that, in his normal course of playing that guitar, and that guitar only, his fingers seem to inadvertently drag the strings off the ends of the frets, which I imagine doesn't happen to him on other guitars.

[flaggerphil]

Looking at the photos, I agree with what others have said...the guitar doesn't look new. Methinks the problem was more with the dealer than with Taylor, though I guess a total lemon could slip through.

Personally, I've never had a problem with any Taylor, American or Mexican made. That includes the ones I bought sight unseen and didn't like the sound once I got it. While I wasn't happy with the tone on some I've NEVER seen anything like what I saw on that guitar, low or high end.

But, one never knows...

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by GSM

"Did you contact Taylor/the place you bought it from before complaining on this public forum?" - Um, no. It's being returned, and this is my way of "contacting" them. I'm sorry if that bothers (most of) you.

It doesn't, actually. You can do whatever you want.

I could say something to the effect that there might be a chance you got a lemon, and that my GS Mini is the most stable and carefully manufactured guitar in my stable, but your mind is made up so I won't. Good luck.