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David
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I took up the guitar at 62 as penance for a youth well-spent. |
#17
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David, FWIW--I'm no a teacher, but I am a struggling student
My thought is your musical background pre-guitar has given you more than enough theory to do what you want to do. You know how to improvise, and you probably know enough about harmony and chord progressions to handle any composing/songwriting you may want to do on the guitar. So it seems like the focus is misdirected for your needs. My instructor spent several months building up my dexterity with exercises that he would write out on staff paper--scales, hammers, pull offs, slides, etc. Then we went through this book, starting somewhere near the middle as the first section is absolute beginner stuff. https://www.amazon.com/Mel-Bay-Antho...s=books&sr=1-5 My teacher is classically trained but plays several instruments in many styles. He is also a performing and recording musician, so I was pretty comfortable letting him guide this process. I feel like this work gave me a good foundation in finger-picking. Now I choose the songs, he helps with fingerings and makes a few changes to make them more attainable at my skill level. This is a huge help, especially right now as I'm fixated on learning some piano ragtime music-- which I have decided was never meant to be played on six strings Hope that helps.
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Bob https://on.soundcloud.com/ZaWP https://youtube.com/channel/UCqodryotxsHRaT5OfYy8Bdg |
#18
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I wanted to play songs I knew and liked on guitar. I bought a couple songbooks - Neil Young "Decade" and the "Eagles Complete.". I still have both of these nearly 50 year old books! They are laid out for piano with treble and bass clef, lyrics between (like a church hymnal) and guitar chord diagrams above the treble notation, appearing right above the lyric where the chord changes. I already knew how all these songs were supposed to sound, so it was just a matter of learning how to form the chords using the diagrams and executing the changes at the right time. I started slow, struggled a little, but worked my way through. My strumming pattern was based on how the original record sounded. If there are any artists you like who have songs you'd like to learn, either get a similar song book or look them up on Google. You can do this on your own or ask your teacher to help. I had a head start with violin, but I was playing a LOT of songs in less than two years this way. |
#19
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I wasted 16 lessons with a person who was a great guitarist but lousy teacher. He could never get down to my level. I got a good basis from Justin Guitar and then took local community college classes. I have another teacher now who I’m ok with. I took a online course and a community college class on music theory.
Funny story is the teacher was trying to teach me a G to C walk down.I kept asking what fret/string.She finally got frustrated and said you know your scales, GABC. Then it hit me. I really did know the fret board and easily figured out the walk down. Right now I’m learning classical guitar and reading music. I’ve also have take n lessons in blues and fingerpicking. My friend laughs and says most guitarist learn 5 chords. You are becoming one learned guitarist especially after only a year. I’m still looking for that magical teacher.
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#20
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Like so many other relationships, teacher and student need to be matched.
When it is a mismatch, then it will be frustrating for one or both and progress will be slow. It sounds like you need to move on and find a different teacher. It's not that they are at fault, nor you - but your needs have altered and you need to pay attention to that. Tell a prospective teacher that you enjoy theory, but struggle to put it into musical practice on guitar, thereby making it hard to retain the theory. There will be someone who knows exactly what you describe and has a plan that has helped others over this obstacle. So much of playing music is mechanical skills and muscle memory. It is so attractive to think one can 'hack' their way via theory to shortcut that work. It never works.
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-Gordon 1978 Larrivee L-26 cutaway 1988 Larrivee L-28 cutaway 2006 Larrivee L03-R 2009 Larrivee LV03-R 2016 Irvin SJ cutaway 2020 Irvin SJ cutaway (build thread) K+K, Dazzo, Schatten/ToneDexter Notable Journey website Facebook page Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art. - Leonardo Da Vinci |
#21
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#22
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For a time in the early 1970's I took private classical guitar lessons from David Grimes. https://www.guitarfoundation.org/page/HoFGrimes
I had already played guitar a few years by the time I did that. In that particular venue lessons were focused on using proper technique and on learning actual pieces of music. Not much at all on theory (though I did have fifteen years of playing piano behind me and theory learning involved in that). That approach made the most sense to me and kept me motivated to keep working on increasing my repertoire.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#23
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A recent example from my experience is that I have been trying to polish up my playing of a piano rag arrangement by Ken Perlman, I think Perlman played a short scale 00018 with a narrower neck than the guitar I am using. Knowing something about chords and melody from theory enabled me to identify the chords underlying the melody of some awkward passages for me and do some modest re arranging to make it easier to play by me on my guitar, so really I am a bit perplexed by those who give the impression that theory is not practically usefull. But then I am also perplexed as to why the OP seems to be devoting so much time to theory that from his first post I guess is being presented out of context of playing actual music, if a guitar teacher wants to introduce a student to sub dominant chords for example it makes obvious sense to me to do that within the context of learning an old jazzy song that uses such chords in the progression. After all explaning the theory in context only takes a few minutes. Last edited by Andyrondack; 05-15-2021 at 02:29 AM. |
#24
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As JonPR put it: "Theory skills are for talking about the music you hear and make, to describe its elements" I teach my students how to play entire fingerstyle pieces that I've written or arranged, note for note. In doing so they're gaining a generous amount of technique that is applicable elsewhere. Tools in their tool-boxes. No scales, no exercises. I will use ham-bone drumming to audibly demonstrate syncopation, etc. During the process of learning the compositions I minimally explain the 'theory' of the chords & melody (the key, the I, iim chords, etc) ONLY to the point where it helps them understand a particular tuning, or chord progression. They do, however, absolutely need to be able to walk down the street, or mow the lawn, or vacuum the house while being able to hum the whole piece in their head. That is THE only way you can learn a piece of music: It has to be something you enjoy hearing, first & foremost. Oh....and no tablature or notation. I don't read or write it. I'll go into as much detail as they like, but NEVER enough to bore them to death, and sometimes absolutely nothing except for physically, AND aurally, working on the piece. If you are able to sit in front of some friends, or a mirror with only yourself as the audience, and be able to play a piece that satisfies them, or you, or all parties concerned, then YOU are making music. I guarantee you that if your audience starts asking you theory questions after hearing it, instead of telling you they enjoyed it, it won't make any difference what you're able to explain. Best regards, Howard Emerson
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#25
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When I was teaching I would always asked my students what they wanted to learn and what their expectations were. No matter what they answered I would always incorporate theory in to the first couple of lessons and then refer back to basic theory as we progressed and learned new stuff. I also explained that a good percentage of their (initial and on going) practice time should be dedicated to finger movement and muscle memory. Just working on getting both right and left hand to move as you want them to is something you do at home, not during a lesson. The ones that did the exercises, practiced the scales, and chord changes improved, the ones that did not, did not?
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David Webber Round-Body Furch D32-LM MJ Franks Lagacy OM Rainsong H-WS1000N2T Stonebridge OM33-SR DB Stonebridge D22-SRA Tacoma Papoose Voyage Air VAD-2 1980 Fender Strat A few Partscaster Strats MIC 60s Classic Vib Strat Last edited by Mbroady; 05-15-2021 at 05:38 AM. |
#26
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OP here. Thanks all for the feedback.
My plan, as it was before I posted, is to have a chat with my teacher to discuss the direction my lessons will take. If that is unsuccessful, I will likely move on. David
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I took up the guitar at 62 as penance for a youth well-spent. |
#27
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Sounds like a good plan, best wishes in your endevour.
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#28
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Like hiring an architect when you want to build a house - you obviously hire him for his professional skills and qualifications, but you don't let him build the house he likes. You commission him to design the house you want. You might well ask him for some ideas if your own plan is a little hazy (you trust his expertise); but the end product is to suit you, not him. Too many guitar students treat teachers like teachers at school, where they have authority and you do what they say, follow their regime whether you like it (or understand it) or not. Sad to say, some guitar teachers behave like that too...
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"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen. |
#29
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Thank you gents. Good place here. Great advice. I know this from experience because people pay me for it.
David
__________________
I took up the guitar at 62 as penance for a youth well-spent. |