Collings Satin Finish: Do You HEAR a Difference?

[buddyhu]

IF satin finish makes a tonal difference, it would have to be substantial for me to consider buying another satin finish guitar.

I owned a Martin Custom D with a satin finish. I was careful to wear long sleeves when I played it to avoid the darkening stain that tends to happen as the result of skin oils accumulating where the picking arm contacts the edge and top. Nonetheless, ANY moisture (droplets from a mustache when taking a sip of a beverage; a sneeze, a raindrop of playing outside) left a stain if it wasn’t wiped off immediately and thoroughly. It started looking scuzzy to me, and I sold it before it became so unsightly that I’d have to give a significant discount. And while the guitar didn’t sound bad for its price point, it wasn’t a particularly remarkable instrument.

[llew]

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

This Collings alphabet soup is getting ridiculous

Talk about?!?

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by Matts67

Allow me to play devil's advocate and ask - if you can polish the satin finish to a gloss (which you can), then what?

Well, if that process thins the finish, that has a definitive effect on tone. There are also legitimate claims that extensive lacquer checking affects tone by breaking surface tension across the body. If somehow the satin finish is more "breathable" in that regard, then yes, I suspect thinning a finish and changing its formulation to make for a more breathable finish could potentially affect tone. I do think those matte finish Martins (15, 16, 17 series) get some of their tone from the ultrathin finish used on those. (Martin has said their cheap matte finish is also their thinnest available finish.) No idea whether the "satin" (aka matte) has an impact though.

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by CopyCat

I have one of the Julian Lage OMs, which are very similar to the T’s and have a super thin satin finish.

This model looks super cool. Can I ask, how does the satin finish wear over time? Does it gloss up in spots and show smudges easily, like the Martin 15s?

[llew]

I don't know about the tops but satin finished necks certainly "gloss up" from the oils on our hands. Stands to reason a top would as well especially where your arm crosses bass side lower bout.

[6L6]

I've played a bunch of these.

When compared to a standard finish Collings, the Traditionals sound like a Martin guitar. To me, standard finish Collings acoustics have a tone all their own and that's why I own three of them.

If I want a Martin sound, I buy a Martin. Not a Trad Collings.

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by 6L6

I've played a bunch of these.

When compared to a standard finish Collings, the Traditionals sound like a Martin guitar. To me, standard finish Collings acoustics have a tone all their own and that's why I own three of them.

If I want a Martin sound, I buy a Martin. Not a Trad Collings.

The Traditional series comes with two finish options: satin and gloss. The question is, among 2020 Traditional series guitars, can you hear a difference between the two finishes?

[RoyBoy]

I think any builder will tell you that there is no tonal difference between satin and gloss when the they the same base product and are of equal film thickness. (satin nitro is still nitro) It is the thickness of finish that effects tone.

Satin finish is complete straight off the gun so it can be a thinner film. Taylor long ago perfected this to the T. Producing a true gloss finish involves laying down a thicker film initially because it is sanded level, and then sanded through progressively finer grits before buffing.

BTW, while you can polish out a satin finish, it is a risky business because the satin film is so thin. If you sand through, then you REALLY have a problem. While you may be able to get to a semi-gloss, getting a true gloss finish out of satin is not possible because the flattening agent in the finish breaks the final finish microscopically. IME, a polished out satin tends to revert back to a duller semi-gloss over time.

[Goodallboy]

Originally Posted by musicman1951

As everything affects tone I'm sure there is a difference, and I'm sure it's too small for me to perceive with the naked ear. Given the variables between instruments I can't imagine an effective way to prove it one way or the other.

Agreed. That would be a level of sonic discernment that I don’t possess.

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

Agreed. That would be a level of sonic discernment that I don’t possess.

Add me to this view as well. I’ve played them and like most Collings, I liked what I felt and heard.

[JERZEY]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

IF satin finish makes a tonal difference, it would have to be substantial for me to consider buying another satin finish guitar.

I owned a Martin Custom D with a satin finish. I was careful to wear long sleeves when I played it to avoid the darkening stain that tends to happen as the result of skin oils accumulating where the picking arm contacts the edge and top. Nonetheless, ANY moisture (droplets from a mustache when taking a sip of a beverage; a sneeze, a raindrop of playing outside) left a stain if it wasn’t wiped off immediately and thoroughly. It started looking scuzzy to me, and I sold it before it became so unsightly that I’d have to give a significant discount. And while the guitar didn’t sound bad for its price point, it wasn’t a particularly remarkable instrument.

Best part about satin is all you need to do is polish it and wipe it down. Its 1/3 the upkeep of any gloss finish.

[Scotso]

Originally Posted by RoyBoy

I think any builder will tell you that there is no tonal difference between satin and gloss when the they the same base product and are of equal film thickness. (satin nitro is still nitro) It is the thickness of finish that effects tone.

Satin finish is complete straight off the gun so it can be a thinner film. Taylor long ago perfected this to the T. Producing a true gloss finish involves laying down a thicker film initially because it is sanded level, and then sanded through progressively finer grits before buffing.

BTW, while you can polish out a satin finish, it is a risky business because the satin film is so thin. If you sand through, then you REALLY have a problem. While you may be able to get to a semi-gloss, getting a true gloss finish out of satin is not possible because the flattening agent in the finish breaks the final finish microscopically. IME, a polished out satin tends to revert back to a duller semi-gloss over time.

i thought satin or gloss finishes all had to be sanded etc due to orange peel that occurs during spraying/drying. My impression is satin nitro is a different formulation than gloss but requires many of the same steps to be get to an even finish...except maybe less buff time. Perhaps a builder can chime in

[TDavis]

I personally don't care for a satin finish on a guitar at all. I've had couple of Martin Series-15 guitars in the past...and the satin finish was the key reason they are "in the past". It just cheapens the appearance of what would otherwise be a beautiful guitar. My own opinion...of course.

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by Ozarkpicker

I personally don't care for a satin finish on a guitar at all. I've had couple of Martin Series-15 guitars in the past...and the satin finish was the key reason they are "in the past". It just cheapens the appearance of what would otherwise be a beautiful guitar. My own opinion...of course.

It looks like they use pore filler on these Traditionals, lacking on the 15. Probably gives a more finished look. I suggested that the satin on these traditionals looks very similar to that on the 15s over on the UMGF, and a few people sort of lost their minds at the suggestion that Collings would use a "cheaper" process on a $6000 guitar. Anyone know if these are a once and done satin spray like the 15s? That would explain why they're so uber thin. I may call Collings to find out.

[hamburg325]

The nitro on the gloss Traditionals is very thin, so I don't think it will constrain tone in any way. On my own gloss Traditional, the sound explodes out of the guitar.