Rode NT5 or Shure SM81, which to buy for my Zoom H8?

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Hi All,

Background: new to acoustic guitar recording (novice understanding of Logic Pro), just got a Zoom H8 and I can say that I'm pretty impressed with the XY capsule mic. It absolutely destroys the sound of any onboard acoustic guitar electronics I've ever tried to send to my DAW. The only downside is placement. I'm a solo player/recorder, so I don't have an extra set of hands. With the capsule, I'm pretty much limited in placement and flexibility, so I'm thinking of sinking a little bit more money into a stereo pair of SDC mics.

I could buy a pair of Rode NT5s for $429. This is the cheaper option, but here's the catch, I only get 6 months 0% financing. Or I could get a pair of Shure SM81 $700 which has a 24 months 0% offer, so spreads the cost over greater time. Obviously I won't need the full 24 months, but it's good to know it's there in case I want it.

So my question is: I'd like to outlay this money once, and though the Rodes are cheaper, in terms of spreading the spending out, the Shures actually are less impactful budgetwise due to the financing.

What are peoples' opinions of these mics for acoustic guitar recording (and yes I will be buying dual mic stands and XLR cables). I've delved deeply on the web and both seem to be well regarded, but I'd love to get AGF user opinions on them. Any links to your own recordings would also be welcome!

Thanks!

[j3ffr0]

I have a pair of SM81s and I like them pretty well -- they get quite a bit of use. I also have a rode NT4 which is basically two NT5s in permanent XY position, but I don't use it any more. It's going up for sale soon; it was replaced with a pair of KM184s. The NT5s will be brighter than the 81s and that can be good or bad depending... The SM81s will be relatively flat. Both will sound good.

I actually suggest buying one of each. Trying both, and then selling the one that you don't like at a minimal loss and backfilling with another of the one that you like best. It's a longer road to reach the destination, but you will learn more that way. Another alternative is to keep one of each. You don't have to use a pair of the same mic.

I have a slight personal preference for the SM81s over the NT5s, plus they are a little more industry standard, but you can make great recordings with either. The NT5s might be a little closer to the zoom built-ins with the treble boost.

[runamuck]

I don't understand how not having an extra pair of hands will be solved by buying two mics.

As far as quality goes, the Zoom onboard mics, from all I've heard, will sound just about as good as either of the two brands you're considering.

If X/Y is problematic for you because you think you need spaced pairs, do you have the experience to be able to hear the difference in a stereo image? Or if you can hear it, is it that significant an issue to be spending money on at this point on your path?

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Sound advice. After doing a bit more research online (which matches what you've written) I'm leaning towards dual SM81s. I do prefer a more flat response (I can EQ if needed but prefer to try and use proper placement and a great mic to record as good of a dry signal as I can get). The SM81s do seem to be very broadly used in the industry. If I ever do get super serious in recording I'll try out different mics. But at this point I kind of want to get "the best at this price point" that I can and not have to upgrade until I'm almost performing-artist level (which I am nowhere near).

A pair of SM81s look like they could serve my modest recording needs for the foreseeable future. I'm not looking to emulate the XY capsule, I'm looking to get the most "just like my guitar" sound recorded as is realistically possible at the sub-$1K range.

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Originally Posted by runamuck

I don't understand how not having an extra pair of hands will be solved by buying two mics.

I didn't explain that well, and now that I think about it, it was probably a mis-statement. I would like two mics to be able to experiment with spacing and not be trapped by fixed XY (granted I have 90 and 120 degree options with the zoom). I want to be able to easily move the mics different distances and be ultra-precise at aiming them where I want, and having a fixed capsule attached to the Zoom really limits that.

[runamuck]

If you're determined to get 2 more mics, the Shures are better mics than the Rodes.

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Originally Posted by runamuck

If you're determined to get 2 more mics, the Shures are better mics than the Rodes.

Thanks - trust me I'd rather keep the money in my pocket, but I do want more flexibility for mic placement to 1) optimize the sound quality captured, and 2) be able to independently alter both distance and angle to minimize/reject things like pick noise, sound of fingers on the strings, even my breathing, etc. The XY is pretty fixed and I can only change the angle on my tripod mount, but angle and distance are obviously tied together for both mics.

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Also got a recommendation via PM about sE electronics sE8, which GC also carries and has as 24 mo SAC offer as well. Will do some added research on these as I have no experience with sE electronics.

If people have experience with sE8 and acoustics, feel free to chime in!

[ChuckS]

I don't have any experience with the 2 mics you initially asked about. But if you're looking at the $700/pair price you might want to consider 3-Zigma hybrid mics (ADK is the parent company). They are on sale directly from ADK starting at $347 each for the SD-C-TL (transformerless small diameter cardioid). There is also a code right now for another 10% off because they are out of the wooden jewel boxes. An advantage of these mics is that the capsules are swappable (i.e. you could buy omni capsules later and swap onto the same amp body). I've had several of these mics and still have three of them. Very nice for spaced pair stereo recording of acoustic guitar.

https://adkmic.com/collections/3-zig...-matched-pairs

[sdelsolray]

+1 on the 3 Zigma CHI mic line.

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Thanks to all (and for the offers via PM as well). I ended up placing an order for a matched pair of sE8. I exhaustively searched for videos and audio samples from third party reviewers and owners, from official review sites to user forums. I think I spent 6+ hours listening to samples until the wee hours of the morning. I did my critical listening with Sony MDR-V6 headphones, which is what I'd be using when mixing in my DAW (Logic Pro) so I thought it made sense to do my listening with those same headphones since they're part of my workflow.

Some general observations:

1. Any differences between the NT5, SM81 and sE8 were so minute between the three that I'm pretty sure I couldn't tell the difference in a blind test over my headphones, and even if I could acknowledge that there were tonal differences, I'd be hard pressed to say which was "better". They all sounded great.

2. There was an eye opening sE8 vs. Neumann KM 184 blind shootout on a forum where I thought I could discern a small bit of difference...but I couldn't tell you which one I preferred.

3. I am not of sufficient guitar skill to take advantage of any gains achieved by going from the sub $350 per mic category, to the over $1K per mic category. By the time I am (if I ever achieve that) I should be of such high skill that I can monetize and buy any mic I want (a la Josh Turner Guitar).

Given how my personal conclusion was that my recorded output would be nearly indistinguishable between the three mics, I opted to save some money by eliminating the SM81. Now I was left with the NT5 and the sE8. While the sE8 was a bit more expensive, it did come with a stereo bar, which I had planned to buy for the NT5, so factoring that cost in resulted in a virtual tie.

So why the sE8? I think maybe part of it is the "road less traveled". Pun unintended. Rode and Shure are very well known and broadly used. sE Electronics, although they've been around since the early 2000s, have that kind of "new kid on the block" factor, but also seem to be well respected by those who own and use them.

Besides, it's GC, so if I'm unhappy for any reason, a return is quick and painless.

I know in the main forum we talk about how we live in a golden age of acoustic guitar makers, but that applies to recording equipment as well. To think that you can get essentially professional quality sound from microphones that are $250-350 really lowers the barrier for those who want to make high quality recordings at home.

[dnf777]

Please give follow up on the SE8s. I wasnt trying to be secretive with the PM, but didnt want to clutter your thread if youbwere set on Rode or Shur.

And I couldnt agree more with your honest assessment. While there may be subtle differences that appeal to personal preferences, I believe certain price points will get you certain audio quality. To get significant audio improvement, you’d likely have to enter the $1000 neighborhood. I think a photography cliche also fits mics: whats in front of and behind, makes more difference than the actual camera. (Within reason, of course!)

[LakewoodM32Fan]

Originally Posted by dnf777

Please give follow up on the SE8s. I wasnt trying to be secretive with the PM, but didnt want to clutter your thread if youbwere set on Rode or Shur.

And I couldnt agree more with your honest assessment. While there may be subtle differences that appeal to personal preferences, I believe certain price points will get you certain audio quality. To get significant audio improvement, you’d likely have to enter the $1000 neighborhood. I think a photography cliche also fits mics: whats in front of and behind, makes more difference than the actual camera. (Within reason, of course!)

Will do, and no worries about the PM. I never thought it was anything other than a generous offer on your part, and others PMd me as well. It's all good.

The only "mistake" I may have made was not paying for 2-day shipping (added $17 vs. the free shipping due to order total), as the initial email from GC had a next Monday estimate. But now the estimate changed to this Friday (UPS still hasn't received it, I think they go out later in the day to UPS en masse). So if it does arrive Friday, I'm okay with not spending the extra for shipping if it's just one extra day. Would love to have it by the weekend to get to learn the ropes.

I for one don't doubt that some will be able to tell the differences between the SM81, NT5, sE8 and KM 141, maybe even pretty quickly. But for my workflow, I could not reliably do so, and in cases where I could tell there was *some* difference I couldn't say which was "better" or "more accurate" since I wasn't in the room to hear the original source guitar directly with my own ears.

Since I'm an amateur, straight intermediate strummer/flatpicker (and that's probably being generous) I honestly feel like this price range is where my skills currently justify me being. Don't get me wrong, I'll continue to practice and play, and if I some day reach pro-level, I'm coming after those high end Neumanns, Soyuz, etc.

[smic28]

Originally Posted by LakewoodM32Fan

Any differences between the NT5, SM81 and sE8 were so minute between the three that I'm pretty sure I couldn't tell the difference in a blind test over my headphones, and even if I could acknowledge that there were tonal differences, I'd be hard pressed to say which was "better". They all sounded great.

Agreed. The mics you are talking about will give great results. If you don't believe me, buy two SM-57s for $100 each and experiment. You'll be surprised how good they can sound with the right placement.

[smic28]

Make that SM-57s, not 87s ;-)