Sitka is harder than Adi. According to The Wood Database. Why then...???

[Cool555]

Hi. I’m still a newbie in AGF. Hence some newbie questions. I’ve read people here saying that Adi has more headroom. I don’t hear that about Sitka. But when I checked their Janka hardness, Sitka is 510 lbf and Adirondack is 490 lbf. So shouldn’t Sitka have more headroom than Adi?

I also get the impression that Adi seems to be a more expensive (premium) wood compared to Sitka. But it’s just my impression, I may be wrong.

Thanks in advance for your reply!

[AndrewG]

I'm not sure there's necessarily a correlation between hardness and headroom. Will a harder top species guarantee a louder guitar? I remain to be persuaded.

[warfrat73]

Adi is more expensive, and is generally considered an upgrade. Partly this is cache, partly this is because there are fewer Red Spruce trees commercially harvested in large enough sizes to make 2 piece guitar tops.

Adi is generally considered to have more headroom because of its higher average stiffness... not hardness. These are different things.

[hat]

Marketing. they have to constantly keep the channel loaded with 'the next big thing' otherwise people would stop buying. Sitka is a fine top wood. In fact I would suggest that in a blind test most couldn't tell the difference between any of the spruces.

[Cool555]

Originally Posted by warfrat73

Adi is more expensive, and is general considered an upgrade. Partly this is cache, partly this is because there are fewer Red Spruce trees commercially harvested in large enough sizes to make 2 piece guitar tops.



Adi is generally considered to have more headroom because of its higher average stiffness... not hardness. These are different things.

Thanks. I see it now. Stiffness and hardness is different. Stiffness of the wood will cause it to be louder, not hardness. Can I check for stiffness of a particular wood in The Wood Database?

[BrunoBlack]

The database numbers are averages. If you consider the entire sample sets for both species, Sitka and Red Spruce are statistically similar.

[Cool555]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

I'm not sure there's necessarily a correlation between hardness and headroom. Will a harder top species guarantee a louder guitar? I remain to be persuaded.

Yes, my reasoning was muddy. A hog top with a Janka hardness of 900 lbf will actually sound softer and more compressed than a Spruce top.

[warfrat73]

Originally Posted by Cool555

Can I check for stiffness of a particular wood in The Wood Database?

It's out there somewhere, I don't have a link off the top of my head.

As Haasome says, though, the numbers you'll get are averages or ranges, and there's a fair amount of overlap between Adi and Sitka. While Adi/Red averages a bit higher, an individual specimen of Sitka could very well be more stiff than a given specimen of Adi.

[Ludere]

Originally Posted by hat

Marketing. they have to constantly keep the channel loaded with 'the next big thing' otherwise people would stop buying. Sitka is a fine top wood. In fact I would suggest that in a blind test most couldn't tell the difference between any of the spruces.

”Sproooooce!”

No? ... ok I’ll go away now ...

[bufflehead]

Keep in mind that not everyone considers adi to be a superior topwood than sitka.

[Cool555]

Originally Posted by hat

Marketing. they have to constantly keep the channel loaded with 'the next big thing' otherwise people would stop buying. Sitka is a fine top wood. In fact I would suggest that in a blind test most couldn't tell the difference between any of the spruces.

Interesting take on “the next big thing”.

+ 1 on the blind test!

[jaymarsch]

Regardless of what top wood that you start with, it still comes down to what a particular luthier will do with it. How thick or thin will it be, how will it be braced, what size of guitar is it? The data on a piece of wood is just a part of the whole equation when it comes to producing end results like tone, projection and headroom.

Best,
Jayne

[Silly Moustache]

High cool,

Adi is more expensive because that's what thry used to use in the good old days but was over harveted and so more difficult to get in bulk.
Sitka is a larger tree and very plentiful.

Adi is often considered "better" but that is a broad assumption. Good sitka will be better than mediocre Adi etc.

I have only one, high quality guitar with adi, and it does seem to be very slightly more luxurious a sound that my others, but it is 16/17 years old and has had a herd working life before I go it.

Generally it is thought that sitka "break-in"/"opens up" in a year or two whereas Adi may take considerably longer.

Really old Adi can have a lovely rich tone - which is why it is in demand.
European spruce (also called German -or any other European country) is also a great tone wood.

There is also Engellman which I believe many gentle fingerstylists like,

There is "Janka Hardness" and there is "velocity of sound" which is a little more important, but please don't ask me to explain.

[Orfeas]

I played 2 same luthier, OM shaped models with EIR back/sides and one with sitka one with red. Both instruments were new with fresh same gauge strings. I could not tell the difference other than the price tag.

[Cool555]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

High cool,



Adi is more expensive because that's what thry used to use in the good old days but was over harveted and so more difficult to get in bulk.

Sitka is a larger tree and very plentiful.



Adi is often considered "better" but that is a broad assumption. Good sitka will be better than mediocre Adi etc.



I have only one, high quality guitar with adi, and it does seem to be very slightly more luxurious a sound that my others, but it is 16/17 years old and has had a herd working life before I go it.



Generally it is thought that sitka "break-in"/"opens up" in a year or two whereas Adi may take considerably longer.



Really old Adi can have a lovely rich tone - which is why it is in demand.

European spruce (also called German -or any other European country) is also a great tone wood.



There is also Engellman which I believe many gentle fingerstylists like,



There is "Janka Hardness" and there is "velocity of sound" which is a little more important, but please don't ask me to explain.

Thanks Andy for your contribution! They are always linked to a bit of history which I enjoy reading!