can i use my zoom h2 and h2n together?

[mc1]

i have an older zoom h2, and then later picked up an h2n.

just wondering if there is anything useful i can do by using both of them at the same time to record a guitar.

[rick-slo]

Spaced pair Zooms? Why not? Dare to go where no Zoomer has gone before. Be sure to post the results.

[Ty Ford]

and hope they hold sync with each other!

If they don't two others might. If they do, two others might not!

Regards,

Ty Ford

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Ty Ford

and hope they hold sync with each other!

If they don't two others might. If they do, two others might not!

Regards,

Ty Ford

The Zooms are not linked. Each records separately (a wav or mp3 recording).

[mc1]

i figured that's what ty meant, that they are not synched, and so could vary over the course of a tune.

a couple of things i wonder about are how to position 2 sets of x-y pairs, and also how to mix those down.

[RustyAxe]

You could use them as condenser mics into a computer DAW (like Reaper or other) via their USB connections. I'd bet you'd be able to do a lot ... stereo, mid-side, Blumlein.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by mc1

i figured that's what ty meant, that they are not synched, and so could vary over the course of a tune.

a couple of things i wonder about are how to position 2 sets of x-y pairs, and also how to mix those down.

What would vary? Each zoom records the same performance independently from a different location in front of the guitar. Then the wav (mp3) files are saved to your computer. Later the two wav (or mp3) files from are combined in your DAW. Not a problem and synch is not an issue.

[Doug Young]

People sync multiple recorders all the time - usually video cameras and an audio recorder, but there's no reason you couldn't sync two audio sources. The manual way it's usually done for video is a clap at the beginning. Then you line them up visually when you inport them into your computer.

The clocks in two independent recorders won't be perfectly in sync - that's what more complex studio systems use wordclock for - and it's conceivable that two inexpensive recorder's clocks could be bad enough that you'd get some drift over time, but you'd be talking about pretty small amounts of drift - maybe a few samples over the course of a tune, not a few seconds. As Ty says, might be a problem, might not. Easy to try and see. My guess is that you're more likely to have timing and phase differences from the placement of the two devices than clock drift problems.

[Ty Ford]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

What would vary? Each zoom records the same performance independently from a different location in front of the guitar. Then the wav (mp3) files are saved to your computer. Later the two wav (or mp3) files from are combined in your DAW. Not a problem and synch is not an issue.

The clocks of each recorder will vary; some not so much, others quite noticeably. If it hasn't happened to you, consider yourself very lucky.

In my experience, sync can VERY MUCH be an issue. You can occasionally get lucky, but the longer the recording, the more the variance.

Regards,

Ty Ford

[Doug Young]

I've encountered drift a few times between audio and video recorders if I shoot too long a session. I'll be in sync at the beginning, and an hour into the video, it's out (sometimes). If I keep the recordings shorter, it seems less likely to occur. Of course being a few ms off between a video and audio isn't usually noticable, while it might be very apparent with 2 audio tracks.

[rick-slo]

Say in a collaborative project a studio receives tracks recorded at different locations with different gear, say a click track timed guitar part from one guitarist, another such track from a different guitarist, another from a percussionist, etc., you will have inherent synch issues since the tracks were recorded with different gear? Combining tracks from different sources is fairly common these days.

[mc1]

thanks for all the help, everyone. i start playing around and hear what happens.

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

You could use them as condenser mics into a computer DAW (like Reaper or other) via their USB connections. I'd bet you'd be able to do a lot ... stereo, mid-side, Blumlein.

that's a good idea. i have a laptop and reaper. i don't know why, but i thought i would only be able to use 1 zoom mic at a time.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Say in a collaborative project a studio receives tracks recorded at different locations with different gear, say a click track timed guitar part from one guitarist, another such track from a different guitarist, another from a percussionist, etc., you will have inherent synch issues since the tracks were recorded with different gear? Combining tracks from different sources is fairly common these days.

In practice, I suspect there usually wouldn't be a big problem, but the scenario described here is a little different than the trading tracks angle you are suggesting. It all has to do with clocks. We've probably all experienced setting the clock on the microwave and DVR to the same time, and then at some point, they're no longer reporting the same time, right? The same can happen with the clocks in your computer that drive the recording. Keep in mind that a recording doesn't really know about "time", it knows about samples. If you record at a 44.1K sample rate, then you have 44,100 samples for every second. If you record at exactly that rate, then play back on a different computer who's clock is actually 44.1000009K, then when you play back, it won't be exactly the same length (or pitch) as you recorded it. And this is assuming the clocks are just slightly different, but constant, and not changing speed. (Changing speed is called "jitter", which you probably see in specs on A/D converters - all clocks has some degree of jitter)

So say, you have two little zooms, and due to tolerances, one's clock is 44.100009 and the other's is 44.09999999. You record on them, then transfer the files to a computer that has a better clock and is exactly 44.1. One track will be slightly slower and longer and lower in pitch. The other will be slightly shorter, faster, and higher in pitch. How much different? Probably so little you don't even notice. But If you've recorded the same source, you could conceivably be at least a few samples to a few ms off, which could show up as phase differences toward the end of the track.

How can people exchange tracks if clocks aren't guaranteed? Easy. Take an extreme example: You record a guitar track at 44.1, and mail it to me. I mess up and use the track as a 48Khz track - I'm not talking about resampling, just I play back your track at a higher sampling rate. I hear the track as going faster and higher in pitch. Fine, you played in the key of G, and I'll hear it more as G#/Ab. I add my part, playing in Ab at 48KHz. Now I send my track back to you. You assume it's 44.1, and add it to your track (again, not resampling, just taking the bits I send you and treating them as being 44.1). Because I played and recorded in sync with your samples - nothing to do with "time", we're still in sync, and you'll hear my part slower than I did, and back in the key of G. it would actually take a bit of extra effort with most modern DAWs to get it to ignore this big a change in sample rate, but this could happen (I actually had something like this happen with a track exchange project recently). But the same concept applies for smaller variations. If your clock is 44.100009 and mine is 44.0999999, we still never notice, because we're really working with the samples, not time.

BTW, I think a far more basic issue of "how would I use 2 zooms" is just the question of how have two pairs of X/Y mics would be effective for a recording. I don't really know, never tried it. I guess you could place one close, the other back in the room for ambience, etc.

[mc1]

as one idea, how about turning each at an angle, then only using the appropriate left or right channel as a set of two single mics?

[rick-slo]

Thanks Doug. You're right of course. I should have thought about it a little more. Playing along to an earlier recorded track sounds like the best solution and beats having to edit or warp the timing of tracks to line them all up.