Epiphone masterbilt vintage sunburst polished?

[Jake64882]

Hey guys I just picked up and AJ-500-RVS. I am thinking about polishing out the satin to a nice gloss, like so many have done, but I am trying to find some pictures of the sunburst masterbilts with the polished finish. Anyone help me out??

[Wade Hampton]

Jake, the best you can possibly achieve by buffing out that satin finish is to bring it up to a semi-gloss, kind of like the shine on the seat of a pair of worn out corduroy pants. There simply isn't enough finish material on there to achieve a true high gloss.

What's more, at least 95% of the buffed out satin finish guitars I've ever seen and handled in person have had little spots where whoever did the polishing blew through the finish to the bare wood below. It's entirely possible to take a photo of one of those guitars to where it looks as good as a high gloss guitar, but those photos are generally take from the angles that make the guitar look as good as possible.

In person, they're generally not very impressive.

What's more, nobody bragging about how they shined up their guitar will usually admit that they accidentally went through the finish in a spot or two, even though most of them have.

Now, I'm basing that strictly on the three or four dozen of these buffed-out satin finish guitars I've had a chance to handle in person. Perhaps ALL of the folks who post on this forum about this conversion somehow managed to avoid boogering up their guitars. I doubt it, but let's just assume that's true.

Even so, the odds aren't very good that you can avoid blowing through the finish. The finish on that guitar wasn't intended to be shined up - if it was there'd be a LOT more finish material on there.

Naturally, I don't expect you to listen to the voice of caution telling you how easily this project can go wrong. Go ahead and find out for yourself.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Jake64882]

Wow wade, I appreciated most of what you said all the way up to the point where you seemed to know anything about me and whether or not I know how to listen to people who have "been there done that".. First post on a new site and already got people telling me that I won't listen.

[Wade Hampton]

I apologize for that, Jake. It was uncalled for. But it's also been my experience when advising folks against doing modifications they're interested in doing.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I got off on the wrong foot with you. Welcome to the forum.


whm

[Jake64882]

Thanks for the apology, I will take your advice into consideration. I have come here to get some insight. I kinda fell in love with my masterbilt, I'm not out to ruin it. Thanks for the welcome.

[sublro]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Jake, the best you can possibly achieve by buffing out that satin finish is to bring it up to a semi-gloss, kind of like the shine on the seat of a pair of worn out corduroy pants. There simply isn't enough finish material on there to achieve a true high gloss.

What's more, at least 95% of the buffed out satin finish guitars I've ever seen and handled in person have had little spots where whoever did the polishing blew through the finish to the bare wood below. It's entirely possible to take a photo of one of those guitars to where it looks as good as a high gloss guitar, but those photos are generally take from the angles that make the guitar look as good as possible.

In person, they're generally not very impressive.

What's more, nobody bragging about how they shined up their guitar will usually admit that they accidentally went through the finish in a spot or two, even though most of them have.

Now, I'm basing that strictly on the three or four dozen of these buffed-out satin finish guitars I've had a chance to handle in person. Perhaps ALL of the folks who post on this forum about this conversion somehow managed to avoid boogering up their guitars. I doubt it, but let's just assume that's true.

Even so, the odds aren't very good that you can avoid blowing through the finish. The finish on that guitar wasn't intended to be shined up - if it was there'd be a LOT more finish material on there.

Naturally, I don't expect you to listen to the voice of caution telling you how easily this project can go wrong. Go ahead and find out for yourself.

Wade Hampton Miller

All i can add is my own experience and that of those I've directly corresponded with. I've buffed out (using scratch-x two step process) probably 10 guitars over the years including 2 epi masterbilts (aj500Ms) and it was not only easy, it exposed a pretty nice gloss layer below... never a problem with going through the finish. my experience with 100% of the guitars i've done this with had a more than adequately thick gloss layer just below the satin. regardless of the marketing spin that usually gets put on about 'thin, acoustically resonant satin finish' personally I think most of these satin finishes are done because they easily mask any small imperfections in the gloss finish and permit the whole finishing process to happen without having to aim for perfection, keeping costs down. as long as you're not looking for an absolute perfect gloss finish, I think you'll be quite pleased.

anyway, i say with an epi masterbilt, it's safe to gloss - have also done it with hohner, ibanez, larrivee, alvarez, recording king - all with nice glossy results.

for what it's worth

[Long Jon]

Welcome aboard Jake !

I have buffed up a satin finish Martin DM that I once owned.
The reason I began this ultimately thankless task was because the guitar (which I bought used) already had a shiny patch where the right arm buffs the top.

It took a great deal of elbow grease and a very small amount of "Dr. Duck's Ax Wax".

The only other chemicals I used on the job did not actually come into direct contact with the guitar itself...

The end result was "good in parts" .... Ultimately disappointing,,,
Very tricky to get a uniform finish all over esp close to bridge and around fretboard extension.

The guitar was none the worse as a functioning guitar, sold it to a pal who still has it and it sounds and plays great, with a somewhat "reliced" looking finish now ...

So, I ain't sayin' don't do it, but if you are picky about wanting "factory finish" looks, then don't do it !

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by sublro

All i can add is my own experience and that of those I've directly corresponded with. I've buffed out (using scratch-x two step process) probably 10 guitars over the years including 2 epi masterbilts (aj500Ms) and it was not only easy, it exposed a pretty nice gloss layer below... never a problem with going through the finish. my experience with 100% of the guitars i've done this with had a more than adequately thick gloss layer just below the satin. regardless of the marketing spin that usually gets put on about 'thin, acoustically resonant satin finish' personally I think most of these satin finishes are done because they easily mask any small imperfections in the gloss finish and permit the whole finishing process to happen without having to aim for perfection, keeping costs down. as long as you're not looking for an absolute perfect gloss finish, I think you'll be quite pleased.

anyway, i say with an epi masterbilt, it's safe to gloss - have also done it with hohner, ibanez, larrivee, alvarez, recording king - all with nice glossy results.

for what it's worth

Oh cool. I own three AJs in natural, but would love to snag one of those used AJs in burst someday. Wonderful guitars.

[blue]

This was a huge thing in the Larrivee community when the satin 03 series came out. The products of choice ended being Maguires products. Also only using manual force. Never machines. Everybody showed their results and nobody went through the finish.

The process is in the FAQ section over there. I tried linking here but it wouldn't allow me. Go to the Larrivee forum and follow this string

Larrivee Guitar Forum > Forum > Main Forums > Technical Discussion > Technical FAQ > Glossing Your Satin Finish (at your own risk)

After reading it, you may decide not to.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by blue

This was a huge thing in the Larrivee community when the satin 03 series came out. The products of choice ended being Maguires products. Also only using manual force. Never machines. Everybody showed their results and nobody went through the finish.

Nobody ADMITTED blowing through the finish.


whm

[DanPanther]

What Wade says has even deeper implications than most realize. The purpose in my mind for the satin finish, is to apply LESS finish, and avoid the need to buff it out. Very cost effective. So It has MUCH less finish than a gloss finished guitar.
Don't do it.
One spot with just a little too much polishing, and you will create a cancer spot that will just get bigger a turn dark and dirty.

Dan

[blue]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Nobody ADMITTED blowing through the finish.


whm

Well how many buffed out satins have you seen? More than 95% of 200? 300? So out of those 300 about a dozen didn't blow through the finish?

[GuitarLight]

I have buffed out my Epiphone AJ-45ME satin finish top guitar with Maguires Scratch X 2.0 with very good results indeed. I chose not to finish the back and sides. But I also polished the dull matte bridge to a gentle gloss finish, as well as the full headstock to what would almost certainly be considered a beautiful full gloss.

Is it as perfect as a factory gloss finish? No. ...but darn close. You could almost comb your hair looking in the finish now. From just a very short distance away it looks full gloss, and no one would question its finish unless they KNEW it had been buffed out by hand. .....the trick is to do this carefully and the right way. And unfortunately there is no specific set of instructions to do so, leaving one feeling they are risking all by doing it. Maybe they are. But a matte finish is not acceptable on a sunburst top to me.

Epiphone may claim the matte finish accentuates the tone, and looks great. Customers who are stuck with the dull finish may claim the same because Epiphone gave them no option to purchase a gloss finish. My guess is also that most customers realize this was a ploy by Epiphone to make this guitar look less than a Gibson J-45 should look, in the hopes the customer would BUY a $2300 Gibson J-45 instead instead of a $650 Masterbilt AJ-45.

The Maguires Scratch X 2.0 formula (a white thin very lightly abrasive paste in a tube) will certainly polish the AJ-45, and probably most other guitars with a poly matte finish, to a very eye pleasing gloss..or semi gloss, improving its looks 100 percent from the dull matte finish Epiphone forced on us. Unfortunately is it also a detailed long process of carefully hand buffing, one that needs to be learned as you actually do it... and it is not to be done quickly with haste, but a slow careful process that is learned by you, as you actually do it. I admit that sounds a bit scary, but that is what I did, and it worked. My AJ-45 no longer looks like the $650.00 matte J-45 Epiphone copy the which Epiphone obviously intended..but it now looks like a $2300 Gibson. I am quite pleased with the outcome...it took well over 14 hours of slow, careful, tedious, step by step hand buffing. But it worked.

What I find most reprehensible is the fact Epiphone/Gibson chose put this dulll matte finish on a splended icon reproduction of a Masterbilt J-45 at all. Shame on them.

I do believe it is possible to ever buff through the finish, but that is not easily done it you stop, remove the Meguiars, inspect the surface, and then continue to apply and buff as needed, keeping an eye on the gloss development, to blend it evenly across the top. I removed the strings to polish the top, but not the tuners, there I polished around them. I used a white cotton T shirt rolled into a ball the size of a baseball, to buff the top..this made it cover more surface and the process moved faster. Firm steady and even pressure is used all across the top..in large clean even swirils...I did not polish with the grain until the final time when the shine had finally developed.

[3 chord]

Some of the comments here remind me of some of the cars i have owned through the years;

good from afar but far from good!

[Jake64882]

Originally Posted by GuitarLight

I have buffed out my Epiphone AJ-45ME satin finish top guitar with Maguires Scratch X 2.0 with very good results indeed. I chose not to finish the back and sides. But I also polished the dull matte bridge to a gentle gloss finish, as well as the full headstock to what would almost certainly be considered a beautiful full gloss.

Is it as perfect as a factory gloss finish? No. ...but darn close. You could almost comb your hair looking in the finish now. From just a very short distance away it looks full gloss, and no one would question its finish unless they KNEW it had been buffed out by hand. .....the trick is to do this carefully and the right way. And unfortunately there is no specific set of instructions to do so, leaving one feeling they are risking all by doing it. Maybe they are. But a matte finish is not acceptable on a sunburst top to me.

Epiphone may claim the matte finish accentuates the tone, and looks great. Customers who are stuck with the dull finish may claim the same because Epiphone gave them no option to purchase a gloss finish. My guess is also that most customers realize this was a ploy by Epiphone to make this guitar look less than a Gibson J-45 should look, in the hopes the customer would BUY a $2300 Gibson J-45 instead instead of a $650 Masterbilt AJ-45.

The Maguires Scratch X 2.0 formula (a white thin very lightly abrasive paste in a tube) will certainly polish the AJ-45, and probably most other guitars with a poly matte finish, to a very eye pleasing gloss..or semi gloss, improving its looks 100 percent from the dull matte finish Epiphone forced on us. Unfortunately is it also a detailed long process of carefully hand buffing, one that needs to be learned as you actually do it... and it is not to be done quickly with haste, but a slow careful process that is learned by you, as you actually do it. I admit that sounds a bit scary, but that is what I did, and it worked. My AJ-45 no longer looks like the $650.00 matte J-45 Epiphone copy the which Epiphone obviously intended..but it now looks like a $2300 Gibson. I am quite pleased with the outcome...it took well over 14 hours of slow, careful, tedious, step by step hand buffing. But it worked.

What I find most reprehensible is the fact Epiphone/Gibson chose put this dulll matte finish on a splended icon reproduction of a Masterbilt J-45 at all. Shame on them.

I do believe it is possible to ever buff through the finish, but that is not easily done it you stop, remove the Meguiars, inspect the surface, and then continue to apply and buff as needed, keeping an eye on the gloss development, to blend it evenly across the top. I removed the strings to polish the top, but not the tuners, there I polished around them. I used a white cotton T shirt rolled into a ball the size of a baseball, to buff the top..this made it cover more surface and the process moved faster. Firm steady and even pressure is used all across the top..in large clean even swirils...I did not polish with the grain until the final time when the shine had finally developed.

Pictures??