The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Custom Shop

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 12-11-2018, 09:57 AM
j. Kinnaird's Avatar
j. Kinnaird j. Kinnaird is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,969
Default An interesting set up tool

In a quest to have perfect setups, I bought this tool from Japan. Here is how it works.

Leaving the guitar strung up, with whatever relief you prefer, (I’m shooting for something between .008 and .010 inch relief) I measure the relief with a stew Mack dial micrometer.


Then I set a complementary relief in the adjustable “straight edge” by turning a knob at the end, similar to the way a two way truss rod is adjusted.

[url=https://johnkinnaird.smugmug.com/Rosettes/Guitar-gallery/i-DdQmt7h/A][/url

Then,I jack up the strings a little on the nut end, and fit the device between two strings. The guitar is still strung up to pitch. There is sandpaper on the bottom of the leveler so by rubbing the thing back and forth, any high frets can be reduced and the frets then follow the relief of the neck exactly.



Here is the complete view of the leveler.

I am not a salesman and don’t have any economic ties with the company (other than having sent them my money and they ain’t cheep) but it seems to work so nicely I thought you guys might be interested.
__________________
Kinnaird Guitars
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-11-2018, 11:07 AM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edinburgh, bonny Scotland
Posts: 5,197
Default

This tool was discussed already in the Build and Repair section. Basically it is a truss-rod attached to an extruded aluminum section.

As I said there, you can achieve exactly the same "leveling under tension" (and achieve it much more cheaply) using a precision ground 18" aluminum channel with sandpaper attached, and setting the neck dead straight, with no relief, and then setting the relief after the frets are leveled and crowned.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-11-2018, 02:14 PM
j. Kinnaird's Avatar
j. Kinnaird j. Kinnaird is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrmac123 View Post
This tool was discussed already in the Build and Repair section. Basically it is a truss-rod attached to an extruded aluminum section.

As I said there, you can achieve exactly the same "leveling under tension" (and achieve it much more cheaply) using a precision ground 18" aluminum channel with sandpaper attached, and setting the neck dead straight, with no relief, and then setting the relief after the frets are leveled and crowned.
Under ideal conditions I completely agree with you. In fact that is how I have been doing this for 40 years. What I now believe is that that system works well under ideal conditions which include uniform curvature of the neck under tension etc. It’s been my experience that conditions are seldom ideal. Stew Mack seals a work platform that simulates string tension just for the occasions when the unpredictable happens to the neck relief under tension. This tool is another attempt to allow fret leveling with a given neck relief.

I understand that some assumptions must be made, a big one being that this new tool is itself uniform under tension. So far results seem to indicate that its curvature is uniform.

My apologies for rehashing an old topic. I seldom if ever look in the build and repair section and if this thread is misplaced then my apologies for that as well.
__________________
Kinnaird Guitars
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-11-2018, 02:45 PM
Mark Hatcher's Avatar
Mark Hatcher Mark Hatcher is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Green Mountains
Posts: 4,859
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j. Kinnaird View Post
Under ideal conditions I completely agree with you. In fact that is how I have been doing this for 40 years. What I now believe is that that system works well under ideal conditions which include uniform curvature of the neck under tension etc. It’s been my experience that conditions are seldom ideal. Stew Mack seals a work platform that simulates string tension just for the occasions when the unpredictable happens to the neck relief under tension. This tool is another attempt to allow fret leveling with a given neck relief.

I understand that some assumptions must be made, a big one being that this new tool is itself uniform under tension. So far results seem to indicate that its curvature is uniform.

My apologies for rehashing an old topic. I seldom if ever look in the build and repair section and if this thread is misplaced then my apologies for that as well.
No apologies needed John. I for one certainly appreciate an experienced luthiers impressions and successes with a new tool. I especially appreciate the sense of comaraderie you show in sharing! There is a strong sense of community that makes the art of lutherie amoung steel string builders unique and serves all who choose to participate. You are one of those- Thank You! Mark
__________________
Mark Hatcher
www.hatcherguitars.com


“Let me make the songs of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws.”. Andrew Fletcher
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:08 PM
murrmac123 murrmac123 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edinburgh, bonny Scotland
Posts: 5,197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j. Kinnaird View Post
My apologies for rehashing an old topic. I seldom if ever look in the build and repair section and if this thread is misplaced then my apologies for that as well.
No need whatsoever for apologies and if my previous post came across as censorious is then I wholeheartedly apologize.

I have been aware of the Katana for a long time ...I used to manufacture and sell a tool which kind of did the same thing ... my philosophy was that you should set the neck straight, under tension, and level the frets.

Then afterwards you relax the tension on the truss rod and the neck will automatically find the correct curvature. David's philosophy was that you set the relief first, under tension, and then sand the required contour into the frets. (David is the Italian inventor of the Katana, based in Japan)

Putting the neck into tension is a prerequisite for both approaches. Personally, I feel that the greatest benefit from leveling under tension is achieved with electric guitar necks, when some necks indisputably benefit from this MO. I am less convinced that there is a great deal of benefit to be achieved by leveling acoustic guitar necks under string tension, and almost certainly a very minimal, if any, benefit on 12 fret necks.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-11-2018, 03:49 PM
David Wren's Avatar
David Wren David Wren is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 1,960
Default

Thanks for sharing your experience so far with this tool ... much appreciated! This type of thread is very helpful in my opinion.
__________________
David Wren
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Custom Shop

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=