$199.99 guitar with $899.01 set-up?

[stephenT]

I am NOT Denny Zager.

[Captaincranky]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

...[ ]....No matter how many times I do the maths, that works out to be a $899.01 set-up. I know the set-up has been done by Denny Zager but does that seem fair value to you?

Don't instruments like the new Epiphone "Pro 1 Ultra", take some of the wind out of the whole, "Zagerization" concept. That guitar, based on a cutaway dread on the order of a Hummingbird or Dove, comes with a set of .010 to .047's, very low action, and jumbo frets. At $329.00 MAP, it has to be a comparable value to instruments near or above it in the Zager line.

Originally Posted by wetreverb

...[ ]....I agree that some of the Zager guitars seem to be priced overly aggressively - 10 years ago this wasn't the case. Also, bear in mind that pricing will be impacted by offering and honoring a 100% Satisfaction Money-Back guarantee, including Zager-paid return shipping! That is one of the strongest guarantees made in the guitar business today.

Most people would never consider going to a guitar tech to have an acoustic guitar set up. A company offering a turn-key guitar already optimally set up is going to enjoy something of an advantage in being able to price their items above the rest. That is just good old customer service and positive marketing.

Does anyone here have any idea as to what percentage of Zager guitars end up being returned under their Satisfaction Guarantee? I have a feeling NOT.

It's my empirical belief that a majority of beginners don't consider the guitar, (regardless of brand), the issue, but rather blame any shortcomings on their own lack of ability.

That, coupled with the fact that some imported brands, (Fender & Epiphone AFAIK), are having techs in the US set up their guitars before they go to resellers. Why just yesterday, I got an Epi which was, "proudly setup in the USA by #14". And yes, it does play well right out of the box, but with a set of .012s on it, not the uber thin strings.

I would be interested in the overall percentage of returns for, "unhappy for any reason whatsoever", in the beginner / mid line market overall, and then make a comparison to what Zager has to eat in the way of returns. I have a sneaking suspicion that many starter guitars wind up in the closet tagged, "I don't have time to learn now, I'll get around to it later", regardless of their playability, good or bad.


Am I in trouble now? And yes, I just figured out this is a necrobump, but know what? Denny & his henchmen were out this summer past, (2014), and I'm sure we can look forward to hearing from him somehow in the coming months. So who's to say this thread isn't ahead of yet still behind it's time? Perhaps even visionary, in a retrograde sort of way!

[Mcrafty1]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

Noticed a whole bunch of new listings on ebay. Looked like average guitars at ridiculous prices. Check this out;
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/350866196...84.m1438.l2649
OK, so that`s $1099.00 for a guitar that Musicians Friend sells for $199.99
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guita...-guitar/h70152
No matter how many times I do the maths, that works out to be a $899.01 set-up. I know the set-up has been done by Denny Zager but does that seem fair value to you?

I've owned a couple of Zagers in the past, they did play easy meaning I could play them for hours and not get sore fingers....That being said their marketing practices are deceptive to say the least. They do everything possible to mislead the buyer into believing they are buying an American made guitar even to the point of covering up the bottom of the sound hole sticker that says 'Made In Malaysia' (or Indonesia I now forget which) either way picture a bunch of kids over there gluing some wood together for .30cents an hour.... with the little gold signed dated sticker from Denny Zager himself. When I discovered this practice all respect for the people/company went down the road along with the guitars.....If I find out my Gibsons aren't made in America they're gone too. I know that Many good guitar manufactures are 'off shore' and if I buy from them I will know that up front.

[Captaincranky]

Originally Posted by Mcrafty1

I've owned a couple of Zagers in the past, they did play easy meaning I could play them for hours and not get sore fingers....That being said their marketing practices are deceptive to say the least. They do everything possible to mislead the buyer into believing they are buying an American made guitar even to the point of covering up the bottom of the sound hole sticker that says 'Made In Malaysia' (or Indonesia I now forget which) ....[ ]....

Mr. Zager actually had pictures of stacks upon stacks of boxes brandishing "USA" on their sides facing the camera, on his website. These ostensibly formed a backdrop, giving a "made in USA" subliminal, but never stated message,for his sales patter.

When I was a child, there was in myth or legend anyway, a city named Usa, Japan. Sort of the same thing.

[Scott O]

I am Denny Zagar!

[Jim.S]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

No matter how many times I do the maths, that works out to be a $899.01 set-up. I know the set-up has been done by Denny Zager but does that seem fair value to you?

I think you were (quite some time ago) exzagerating a bit Bruce, to be fair you didn't take into account the time it took to post it on ebay (time is money) and also the Paypal fees as well as packaging and handling so it may only be a $850 set up. Nice work if you can get it.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by wetreverb

1. I am NOT Denny Zager, or any member of his family or inner circle.
2. I have owned and played a Zager-modified Martin-Sigma guitar and liked it.
3. I am by necessity, frugal and careful of every dollar I spend

Okay, for starters, I consider that Zager made real improvements in the playability of the guitar mentioned above. I agree that 10 strings on an acoustic do tend to thin the sound, but having 11's on my 1972 Bruno Ventura with Rosewood back and sides, the sound was very Martin-like, and I feel it's unfair to judge Zager based on that affect on guitars with Mahogany back and sides, Hell, even with 12's I find such guitars uninspiringly thin in sound.

I agree that some of the Zager guitars seem to be priced overly aggressively - 10 years ago this wasn't the case. Also, bear in mind that pricing will be impacted by offering and honoring a 100% Satisfaction Money-Back guarantee, including Zager-paid return shipping! That is one of the strongest guarantees made in the guitar business today.

Most people would never consider going to a guitar tech to have an acoustic guitar set up. A company offering a turn-key guitar already optimally set up is going to enjoy something of an advantage in being able to price their items above the rest. That is just good old customer service and positive marketing.

Does anyone here have any idea as to what percentage of Zager guitars end up being returned under their Satisfaction Guarantee? I have a feeling NOT.

did you say "Zager-paid return shipping!"

and "turn-key guitar"?

you had me at "I am NOT Denny Zager"

[fazool]

Originally Posted by ahutt59

I knew this was a Zager listing soon as I saw the thread title lol....

me too .

[Rmz76]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

Noticed a whole bunch of new listings on ebay. Looked like average guitars at ridiculous prices. Check this out;
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/350866196...84.m1438.l2649
OK, so that`s $1099.00 for a guitar that Musicians Friend sells for $199.99
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guita...-guitar/h70152
No matter how many times I do the maths, that works out to be a $899.01 set-up. I know the set-up has been done by Denny Zager but does that seem fair value to you?

No setup is worth that much... The Zager ideology is that a quality setup is what separates a beginner guitar from a high quality instrument. Too bad for Zager value brands are taking the time to do proper setups. Find a nearby Alvarez dealer and check out the factory setup on the current models. Super low action with good sustain and tone. Epiphone PRO-1 series are suppose to deliver this on guitars at the $100 price point, but I've yet to see one in a store.

[chitz]

Thread closed in 6...5...4...3...2...

[RP]

I think that's entirely reasonable given the name recognition of Danny Zager based on his careers in both the music industry and guitar setups. How much would you pay to have Tom Brady help you with your passing, Tiger Woods help with your swing, or Marshawn Lynch help with your public speaking in a 1:1 situation? Come on, Danny Zager has to eat and put a roof over his head as well as pro athletes....

[mc1]

Originally Posted by RP

I think that's entirely reasonable given the name recognition of Danny Zager based on his careers in both the music industry and guitar setups. How much would you pay to have Tom Brady help you with your passing, Tiger Woods help with your swing, or Marshawn Lynch help with your public speaking in a 1:1 situation. Come on, Danny Zager has to eat and put a roof over his head as well as pro athletes....

i think that would make a better analogy if denny were offering high priced lessons in song writing.

or if tom brady were offering expensive ez-pass footballs by taking ordinary footballs and adding a patented deflation release valve.

[buddyhu]

This thread is a zombie from August, 2013.

Wetreverb joined in February, 2015, and his first post resurrects this thread.

We are being used.

[RP]

That's why I threw my trollish comments above that were intended to be purely tongue-in-cheek. I 've gotten tired of threads going after topics like Danny Zager and others as if it's ridiculousness is a unique revelation...

[Larry Pattis]

Originally Posted by wetreverb

1. I am NOT Denny Zager, or any member of his family or inner circle.
2. I have owned and played a Zager-modified Martin-Sigma guitar and liked it.
3. I am by necessity, frugal and careful of every dollar I spend

Okay, for starters, I consider that Zager made real improvements in the playability of the guitar mentioned above. I agree that 10 strings on an acoustic do tend to thin the sound, but having 11's on my 1972 Bruno Ventura with Rosewood back and sides, the sound was very Martin-like, and I feel it's unfair to judge Zager based on that affect on guitars with Mahogany back and sides, Hell, even with 12's I find such guitars uninspiringly thin in sound.

I agree that some of the Zager guitars seem to be priced overly aggressively - 10 years ago this wasn't the case. Also, bear in mind that pricing will be impacted by offering and honoring a 100% Satisfaction Money-Back guarantee, including Zager-paid return shipping! That is one of the strongest guarantees made in the guitar business today.

Most people would never consider going to a guitar tech to have an acoustic guitar set up. A company offering a turn-key guitar already optimally set up is going to enjoy something of an advantage in being able to price their items above the rest. That is just good old customer service and positive marketing.

Does anyone here have any idea as to what percentage of Zager guitars end up being returned under their Satisfaction Guarantee? I have a feeling NOT.

Yes, first post to the forum, and bumping a zombie zooger thread.

I guess we all know what P.T. Barnum said...