BUSTED BY ASCAP

[frankmcr]

Redoing the math per the Original Post:

$350 to cover 26 weeks of the open mike - $13.46 per week

Weekly attendance "around a dozen" - around $1.12 per attendee.

Pay up.

[FrankHS]

Maybe this is off topic, but can a gigging solo musician purchase a convenient annual blanket license from ASCAP and BMI to perform any covers, anywhere? If so, whats that cost?

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by FrankHS

Maybe this is off topic, but can a gigging solo musician purchase a convenient annual blanket license from ASCAP and BMI to perform any covers, anywhere? If so, whats that cost?

No. There's no such thing.

[Coop47]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

Redoing the math per the Original Post:

$350 to cover 26 weeks of the open mike - $13.46 per week

Weekly attendance "around a dozen" - around $1.12 per attendee.

Pay up.

Phew - I was worried. I really did check my math before posting.

[Tahitijack]

This is one of the reasons venues throw up their hands and just provide background recorded music. If a bunch of players want to gather every couple of weeks to entertain each other.....rent a studio.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

Redoing the math per the Original Post: $350 to cover 26 weeks of the open mike - $13.46 per week Weekly attendance "around a dozen" - around $1.12 per attendee. Pay up.

Or another way to look at it: If the coffee shop sells 10 cups of coffee during your time there, they have made enough to pay the $1 per day to have live music. If live music isn't worth $1 to the shop, they should just end it. If the 12, or so, of you aren't buying at least one drink while you're there, they should put you out anyway. If you are, they're making the money to pay the fee. It is their responsibility to pay the fee.

[AuntieDiluvian]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

Or another way to look at it: If the coffee shop sells 10 cups of coffee during your time there, they have made enough to pay the $1 per day to have live music. If live music isn't worth $1 to the shop, they should just end it. If the 12, or so, of you aren't buying at least one drink while you're there, they should put you out anyway. If you are, they're making the money to pay the fee. It is their responsibility to pay the fee.

This. Expecting the entertainment to pay the facility fee is insulting at best.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by AuntieDiluvian

Are you serious? You are paying to provide no-charge entertainment for the venue? Pay-to-play for an open mic?

Yes. that's bizarre. It should be the other way round.
Performers shouldn't expect to be paid at an open mic, but they should at least get in free. They "payment" is having to play. Non-musicians, punters, should perhaps pay entry, at least if the music is a big feature of the place.

Of course one wouldn't expect a coffee shop to charge admission, but they should at least pay for the music licence. And (IMO) pay something to whoever organises the open mic. I.e., is there a PA there? Who owns and operates that? They deserve something. If the PA belongs to the shop, then it seems reasonable for them to hire it to the musicians for a small fee. If one of the musicians is bringing along their own PA, especially if they are also acting as organiser and MC, the shop should pay them.

This is how it works at an open mic I help run. My partner brings his PA, we play a short opening and closing set, MC the evening, and the pub pays us a small fee. The other musicians and the clientele pay nothing. They just buy the beer. (We get one free pint each.) The pub pays a music licence. The audience is never big, the pub is small, but obviously finds it worthwhile. (AFAIK the size of licence fee depends on the capacity of the venue, and this one is tiny.)

[Wengr]

Originally Posted by DaveKell

Somebody remarked "that only means the rest of us will be paying for the venue you get to play your originals in".

Somebody should be corrected, and told that the fee does not pay for the venue. It pays for the material they cover.
No covers, no fees.

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by AuntieDiluvian

Are you serious? You are paying to provide no-charge entertainment for the venue? Pay-to-play for an open mic?

There are open mics around here that charge (not just the players, but listeners too), but these are held in non-profit/no merch places - listening rooms, church halls, etc. One open mic at a bar-restaurant that does charge a cover is doing away with their music entirely at the end of next month.


The old 'no covers, originals only' only works if the performers are not BMI/ASCAP members with registered songs that they report to the PRO (like I do).

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by Tahitijack

This is one of the reasons venues throw up their hands and just provide background recorded music.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... I thought you needed licensing to play pre-recorded songs (or even the radio) too. To the PRO, whether it comes off a CD/mp3 player or from a guitarist's hands and voice makes no difference.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Tahitijack

This is one of the reasons venues throw up their hands and just provide background recorded music. If a bunch of players want to gather every couple of weeks to entertain each other.....rent a studio.

What is "one of the reasons" ? If your talking about the "performance fees" the venue is also legally obligated to pay the fees for "recorded" music as well. So that equals a "net zero" gain to do so.

opps just saw Chipotle beat me to it

[AuntieDiluvian]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Correct me if I'm wrong, but... I thought you needed licensing to play pre-recorded songs (or even the radio) too. To the PRO, whether it comes off a CD/mp3 player or from a guitarist's hands and voice makes no difference.

Correct. Any for-profit business with music playing - bar, restaurant, dance studio, pool hall, etc. - all have to pay the licensing fee to use the music.

This is why it makes zero sense to charge the players for it.

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by DaveKell

However, this place stays open on our night three hours longer just for us.

As a side note, what if you 'rent' the place for a 'private' party as this is outside of their normal business hours? I don't know how ASCAP/BMI works for that scenario, I'm just asking. If they don't have any other music, recorded or live, during their normal business hours, this open mic really is the only reason for them to pay the fees.

It sounds like they are just doing this to support the music community. They surely wouldn't sell enough coffee to cover their additional expenses of staying open just for this event. I wouldn't mind chipping in to pay fee in this case. If I were them, however, I would simply close down the open mic. It seems like too much hassle, not enough benefit to me.

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by Tahitijack

This is one of the reasons venues throw up their hands and just provide background recorded music. If a bunch of players want to gather every couple of weeks to entertain each other.....rent a studio.

As with similar threads, there are competing interests here. The musicians (some of which are learning songwriters), the venue (which may not be all that interested in the music and just another cost your business won't mind paying), the PRO (and the member/songwriters who'd like to get paid for their work), and the audience (who may be there more out of obligation to the performers)--but the rent a room idea seems to be a useful compromise.

If the learning songwriters are skint or just hesitant to part with their cash, the room doesn't even have to have a cost. Does someone have a larger rec-room, basement, living room (or a friend who does?). Someplace that a favor could be exchanged for to use during off-hours with a large enough floor-plan?