Removed Piezo from Sable, Wow

[Crab]

I was having unbalanced volume on my Sable when plugged in, so as I was trying to troubleshoot it, I noticed that under the saddle was a very thin strip of….. what feels like soft and flexible rubber material, see pic below:



So I removed it, as well as the piezo, so it’s just saddle in the slot. And man, there was a noticeable improvement in tone and clarity. Before, it sounded super warm, but muffled and muddy in the lows, and mid and highs sounded thin. But without the UST and the rubber strip, it sounds amazing, much more wood like and amazing clarity and I love the warm tone (when played soft bare fingerstyle). Anyone noticed or know why they put that rubber strip there? I assume it’s to protect the UST, but I think it’s dampening and robbing the tone…

[JackDaniel]

Interesting. I've seen this on my Emerald's too. Is it a spacer or something?

[jdinco]

I'VE Had my saddle out several times and never noticed the spacer, I better look closer I guess???

[Crab]

Originally Posted by jdinaz

I'VE Had my saddle out several times and never noticed the spacer, I better look closer I guess???

I noticed only because I was checking the fit of the piezo, making sure the bottom of the slot is flat, and took me a few times before I noticed the bottom was soft. It’s probably a combination of removing piezo and this spacer thing that resulted in my perception of improved tone. If you remove yours, let me know if you’ve notice any changes in tone, or if I’m just crazy…

[jdinco]

Originally Posted by Crab

I noticed only because I was checking the fit of the piezo, making sure the bottom of the slot is flat, and took me a few times before I noticed the bottom was soft. It’s probably a combination of removing piezo and this spacer thing that resulted in my perception of improved tone. If you remove yours, let me know if you’ve notice any changes in tone, or if I’m just crazy…

I'll check it later today and let you know. Thanks !

[steelvibe]

I don't have a Sable (I have sampled one), but it is good to see you posting back on here again Crab! It does seem that one of the minor complaints on the Sable is a bit too much of a compressed/ dark tone and that is why many stick with 80/20s that the guitar ships with. It could be very possible that the tone is influenced by this rubber shim you found but also think it might help "EQ" the Element. There has to be a good reason McPherson and LR Baggs are using it?

As a side note, I find swapping any TUSQ or plastic saddle for bone is an improvement for tone on acoustic guitars, carbon or wood. People here think I'm crazy so you are in good company.

[Crab]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

I don't have a Sable (I have sampled one), but it is good to see you posting back on here again Crab! It does seem that one of the minor complaints on the Sable is a bit too much of a compressed/ dark tone and that is why many stick with 80/20s that the guitar ships with. It could be very possible that the tone is influenced by this rubber shim you found but also think it might help "EQ" the Element. There has to be a good reason McPherson and LR Baggs are using it?

As a side note, I find swapping any TUSQ or plastic saddle for bone is an improvement for tone on acoustic guitars, carbon or wood. People here think I'm crazy so you are in good company.

Thanks, steelvibe! Yes, I have been lurking around still, but I just read. I thought this discovery was worth posting, and wondering if others perceive the same if they tried taking it out. One of the things that I love to do, is tinker and experiment, so yes I have a bone saddle in there right now, and I do find a slight improvement in tone. I think on wood guitars the tusq and bone had more of a difference than on the sable, but I’m keeping the bone in there for now. I didn’t like to 80/20, I thought it made it sound even more scooped, even thought it’s brighter and helped the dark tone. I am now on elixir PB custom lights (lights sound good too), I think it’s more warm but more importantly it improved the mid/highs (without piezo, that rubber strip, and bone saddle). With piezo and that strip, none of the strings I’ve tried sounded good, as you and others mentioned, sounded very dark, and I found it muddy, no clear separation in the notes for fingerstyle.

The only thing that I can think of for that strip, is to help with the piezo, but I was having string volume balance issues with it anyway, and it was definitely not worth it at the expense of unplugged tone. I am now considering putting a K&K trinity that I have laying around, so don’t have to have anything under the saddle since I love the tone now… or just leaving it without electronics.

[Jamolay]

How did taking it out effect your action?

[Crab]

Originally Posted by Jamolay

How did taking it out effect your action?

The rubber strip is thin, see pic below, it’s under 1mm. You can also see in the picture how flexible and soft it is, reminds me of like a thin bike inner tube.




The strip and the piezo together is ~1.5mm. So if you take both out, you may want to put in the stock tall saddle, if you have the included short saddle in there, depending on your playing style.

[jdinco]

I think I'll give McPherson a shout and see what they have to say about it before I do anything with it. I'll report back when I hear from them.

[tbeltrans]

I just sent a message to McPherson asking about this. I want to know what the strip is for and what harm may come to the pickup by removing the rubber strip.

Thanks,

Tony

[Crab]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

I just sent a message to McPherson asking about this. I want to know what the strip is for and what harm may come to the pickup by removing the rubber strip.

Thanks,

Tony

Awesome, I was going to contact them too, but figured I’d ask and share here first. And just to be clear… I removed both the pickups and the strip. I am not sure what affect removing just the strip and leaving pickups would be, to the tone or the pickups. Or removing only pickups and leaving strip would sound acoustically. But removing both sounded amazing to me, so I am going to leave both out.

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Crab

Awesome, I was going to contact them too, but figured I’d ask and share here first. And just to be clear… I removed both the pickups and the strip. I am not sure what affect removing just the strip and leaving pickups would be, to the tone or the pickups. Or removing only pickups and leaving strip would sound acoustically. But removing both sounded amazing to me, so I am going to leave both out.

I am glad you brought that up. I should get an answer about what the rubber strip does and what happens if we remove it but leave the pickup in.

If you remove the whole shebang, then the saddle would sit lower, giving you lower action, I would think.

I deepened the nut slots and shaved a tiny bit off the saddle bottoms one of my Tourings and one of my Sables, leaving the others as from the factory. I did nothing with any of the pickups though.Much easier on the fingers!

Tony

[Jamolay]

Makes me wonder what effect just having a piezo under the saddle has on tone. No rubber in mine. I don’t actually use the pickup.

[Crab]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

If you remove the whole shebang, then the saddle would sit lower, giving you lower action, I would think.

Yes, lowering at the saddle will give you half of that amount in at the 12th fret. So half the numbers that I’ve posted is what you can expect if you take just the strip out (~.4mm lower at the 12th fret), or take both the strip and the piezo out (~.75mm lower at the 12th fret)