friends with problems

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by woodbox

It’s really very simple.. you choose this, you get that.

Seems to be a lost art these days - fully understanding consequences.

[Neil K Walk]

Sometimes burning bridges is not a bad thing. A similar situation in my own life has motivated me to stay off Facebook and use pseudonyms on social media. It’s made my life lonely and drama still seems to find me, but it could be much worse.

[Birdbrain]

Originally Posted by Mr. Paul

John Gorka dealt with it by writing this song

Even a better one from him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcsLjy1LCpc

[archerscreek]

A River Runs Through It is based on the book of the same name by Norman Maclean. Both book and movie are entertaining, relevant to the OP’s situation, and based on Maclean’s own attempt to help his troubled younger brother. Maclean’s conclusion has wisdom.

[fumei]

Family is different.

I am going to have to politely disagree. To an extent. Yes, true, you do not get to pick your family. And yes, that does give them a lot more effort directed towards them. But for me, it is NOT (in any way) an unlimited effort. Just because they are family does not, at least for me, give them a pass on bad behavior.

I called the cops on my brother who was drunk and drove off. I tried to take his keys but he is much bigger than me. So, shrug, when he left I called the cops and gave them his direction and license plate. Do it again.

Life is short and making and keeping boundaries is a good thing. If someone is abusing in any serious way it moves them outside a boundary. They will lie. Secret smokers, secret drinkers (et al), they are the same. I used myself 50 years ago. I know. No one stops because someone asked them to. Ever. Not talking recreational once or twice a year kind of indulgence. If someone is using (whatever) on a daily, or even every other day, usage, then nothing you say will make any real difference.

It is NOT mean to take care of yourself and your boundaries. And walking away do NOT mean that you would rebuff a serious sober approach by them. People do change, just not because of someone else. Taking care of your own health and those you love is the most important thing.

The hardest thing is when it IS the one you love who is off into that world. It makes walking away very very very hard.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Jamolay

Not to wade into any argument. It may be helpful to look at the broad definition of the word “disease”. Then see if it applies to a given situation. There is no room for opinion. The word has a definition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease

I found it useful to read this definition…thanks for sharing.

The fact is that some folks can dabble in substance abuse and put it aside, and some folks find that when they use mind altering substances, their use develops a powerful momentum that makes it MUCH harder to put the substances aside….sometimes this momentum seems to take hold after a single use of a substance. For some, that warrants the use of the term “disease”, and to emphasize what appears to be underlying biological factors in determining who will experience this momentum and who will not. And some folks don’t like using the term disease when talking about these issues.

But at the level of OP’s internal conflict, what we call the pattern of use/abuse is not at all important. What matters is recognizing the pattern of use and its effect on relationships, and finding ways to respond to the wish to stay connected to folks you love (or have loved) while recognizing that the wish to stay connected won’t help the substance abuser, while staying connected brings frustration, disappointment, and hurt to the people who love the substance abuser.

[EZYPIKINS]

Originally Posted by J-Doug

I have some high school friends. We all turn 50 next year. Most have serious substance abuse problems and fidelity issues. All are divorced from some really great former spouses and have young kids in the mix. Outside of recommending they change (which I have) I feel there is not much else I can do to help so I've backed away from them. I just can't relate to their current state. We are on very different life paths and I've finally lost my ability to sympathize with them. I know that's mean but it is how I feel.

How have others dealt with this?

I know how you feel brother.

Best man at my wedding went off the deep end.

Hadn't been able to be around him for years.

He died last winter (Cancer) I spoke to him on the phone about a week prior.

He was crying. Telling me he was so scared.

Knew how he had lived. And how he treated others.

Feared the atonement he faced.

His life was not my problem. As your friends are not yours.

Your problem is you. And only you and yours.

Cutting ties is hard. But sometimes it has to be done.

[tinnitus]

Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS

...
...

Cutting ties is hard. But sometimes it has to be done.

True dat.

Had turkey dinner with friends yesterday, big caring family. A small plaque in one room says, "Please love me when I deserve it the least because that is when I need it most."

That actually fits well with this scenario, too, since 'love' isn't simply a matter of "being around" despite bad behaviors. That only helps dysfunctional players delude themselves into believing they still have everyone's blind support while they continue acting up.

Last month I was happy to see my cousin's 30 year old son, a heroin addict doing VERY well in his 4th year of sobriety. He would be the first to tell you that family and friends distancing themselves from the preceding 5 years of lying, stealing and endangering others was an important part of his decision-making process to turn his life around and re-join the human race.

He would also say it takes strong organized support from experts to effect a meaningful recovery from the heroin addicted lifestyle, and that people constantly forgiving (and thereby enabling) addict behaviors while they're still happening is no help whatsoever.

Set specific boundaries, and, if you think you might be heard, explain why it has to be this way, at least for now. "Hope to see you healthy on the other side - and become good friends again."

[The Bard Rocks]

Ive seen too many people whose success in living a good life was too often defined by friends, for better or worse as the case may have been at the time. One of the things children need to learn is how to pick the right friends. But no one teaches this.

[Boozehound]

I’m 39. I keep in touch with one friend from high school. He was best man at my wedding and we are still fairly close, although we live in different cities and have very different lives (he has no children, and I have 3 young kids). I have another that I see every few years, and that’s it. I also have a few College friends I keep up with.

Sometime around 30 things changed for me, and I lost touch with a lot of my high school friends. I got married, had kids, and became reasonably successful while they did not. Then I moved away. It’s not even that I consciously cut them out, I just realized we had really nothing in common anymore outside of reminiscing about some old days that I don’t look back in all that fondly.

I have lots of new friends now that are much more like minded and share more similar lives and interests. And I don’t have to worry about getting in trouble hanging out with them.

[Joe Beamish]

I’ve distanced myself from old friends, and likewise old friends have distanced themselves from me, more or less actively or passively — without substance abuse issues of any kind. It just happens.

Honestly, with a family, and other interests, I don’t have much time for friends who aren’t A) parents of kids the same age as mine, B) fellow musicians, or C) happy to get together briefly once a year or two.

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by Joe Beamish

I’ve distanced myself from old friends, and likewise old friends have distanced themselves from me, more or less actively or passively — without substance abuse issues of any kind. It just happens.

Honestly, with a family, and other interests, I don’t have much time for friends who aren’t A) parents of kids the same age as mine, B) fellow musicians, or C) happy to get together briefly once a year or two.

One of my mentors used to say, “All relationships are temporary.” I didn’t like hearing that at the time, but 40 years later, I recognize the truth that underlies such a statement: impermanence.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by Joe Beamish

I’ve distanced myself from old friends, and likewise old friends have distanced themselves from me, more or less actively or passively — without substance abuse issues of any kind. It just happens.

Honestly, with a family, and other interests, I don’t have much time for friends who aren’t A) parents of kids the same age as mine, B) fellow musicians, or C) happy to get together briefly once a year or two.

Conversely - I've been single all my life, and I have 5-6 close friends from the old days that took the "normal" path with marriage and kids.

I can't tell you how many times over the years they have thanked me for making the effort to keep in touch and make the drive (a lot of times it's geographical distance that gets in the way) to see them when they couldn't do so. Sure, I had commitments of my own, but I found the time.

If the people are meaningful to you, you'll find a way. In this day and age it's pretty easy to stay connected somehow!

[leew3]

JDoug you're right on track. All I'd suggest is that if it remains healthy for you to remain in contact with these friends, continue to do so. If it's not healthy for you, keep your distance yet hopefully remain compassionate toward them.

I am fully supportive of the disease concept of addiction for this is what the science says. Much like other diseases, living with addiction dictates lifestyle changes that may require a change of friends.

Provided I don''t use today or until then, I will celebrate 33 years clean and sober next month. This has required a lot of work on my part and a complete change of friends and context. I thank God that I've had this chance to change.

[Joe Beamish]

Originally Posted by buddyhu

One of my mentors used to say, “All relationships are temporary.” I didn’t like hearing that at the time, but 40 years later, I recognize the truth that underlies such a statement: impermanence.

To go even darker, I’ll paraphrase Alice Munro: By the time your children are in their sixties, they’re really just other people to you, like anyone else.