The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Custom Shop

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-24-2022, 09:37 PM
CMStewart CMStewart is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 51
Default Arm-Rest in place of Arm-Bevel?

So I came across these classical guitars by Philipp Neumann, where he has an actual Arm-Rest instead of an Arm Bevel, as is used by most hand-built acoustic guitars these days. Since one main purpose of an arm bevel (in addition to improving comfort) is helping avoid dampening the soundboard with ones arm, this seems like a much better design because not only are angling the arm further away from touching the soundboard, which should more consistently prevent your arm from dampening the soundboard, but in this design you don't have to cut into the soundboard's surface area to install it.

Has anyone ever tried to design or make something like this Philipp Neuman arm rest? I have no clue how he goes about it, but would love to attempt something like it.



Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-25-2022, 01:00 AM
colins's Avatar
colins colins is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Victoria, Australia
Posts: 3,320
Default

That is a very elegant armrest, and a very elegant guitar too!

There are regular posts on commercially-available armrests in the main section, but while they do the function they donít do it with the style of the one you have found.

You are correct to say bevels reduce the top area. How much of an issue this is would be better covered by a luthier then me. But as the owner of a few guitars with bevels I do like the fact that they are narrower overall at the bass side of the lower bout than the same guitar with an armrest. As such the bevels probably add to my comfort in playing (with my bad shoulder) more than an armrest would do.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-25-2022, 06:57 AM
fitness1's Avatar
fitness1 fitness1 is offline
Musical minimalist
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Central Lower Michigan
Posts: 21,683
Default

I've only owned one guitar with a bevel, but it definitely didn't keep my arm from dampening the top, in fact I think my arm contacted the top more than it would have if there had been the standard "edge".

It's hard to tell from those pics how far the internal edge of the arm rest is from the top of the soundboard, but if it's more than 1/4" or so, it would probably do it's job and, as mentioned above, it looks very nice too!
__________________
"One small heart, and a great big soul that's driving"

Charis SJ Koa/BC Sitka
Mcknight/Poling GC Koa/Italian
Taylor custom GC Mahogany/Sitka
Loriente Clarita EIR/Engelmann


Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-25-2022, 07:09 AM
Tim McKnight's Avatar
Tim McKnight Tim McKnight is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Morral, Ohio
Posts: 5,862
Default

[QUOTE=Supercurio;7113657]So I came across these classical guitars by Philipp Neumann, where he has an actual Arm-Rest instead of an Arm Bevel, as is used by most hand-built acoustic guitars these days. Since one main purpose of an arm bevel (in addition to improving comfort) is helping avoid dampening the soundboard with ones arm, this seems like a much better design because not only are angling the arm further away from touching the soundboard, which should more consistently prevent your arm from dampening the soundboard, but in this design you don't have to cut into the soundboard's surface area to install it.

Has anyone ever tried to design or make something like this Philipp Neuman arm rest? I have no clue how he goes about it, but would love to attempt something like it.



https://www.jpstrings.com/armrest.htm

You have cited many good reasons why this style of rest encourages the player to keep their forearm elevated above the sound board, which I totally agree with. However, you will likely find equal and polar opposite responses why players like a bevel better. To each his own and YMMV.
__________________
tim...
www.mcknightguitars.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-25-2022, 07:36 AM
agfsteve agfsteve is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Northeast Tennessee, USA
Posts: 1,062
Default Could the arm rest curve over the top, for comfort?

If the arm rest of the guitar shown in the photo curved over the top instead of coming out at a 90 degree angle, then it would still keep your arm off the top, but would also provide some of the comfort of the arm bevel. I would think that the edge of the arm rest could come within a few millimeters of actually touching the top to give the best of both worlds.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-25-2022, 08:41 AM
dcn's Avatar
dcn dcn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 577
Default

I would recommend giving the Andreas Abel armrest a try. It attaches to the lower bout without damaging the finish and I do find it frees the top.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-25-2022, 03:32 PM
Bruce Sexauer's Avatar
Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Petaluma, CA, USA
Posts: 7,387
Default

An "Uppie" exacerbates the ergonomic issue, though it may keep the arm off the top, a problem I've never noticed having. It surprises me that a conservative wedge such as I use has not become more common. A 1" wedge makes a guitar a little weird, but 5/16" makes a very real ergonomic difference without being even slightly obvious, visually. Back to your regular programing.
__________________
Bruce
http://www.sexauerluthier.com/
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-25-2022, 08:02 PM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Mohawk Valley
Posts: 8,393
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer View Post
An "Uppie" exacerbates the ergonomic issue, though it may keep the arm off the top, a problem I've never noticed having. It surprises me that a conservative wedge such as I use has not become more common. A 1" wedge makes a guitar a little weird, but 5/16" makes a very real ergonomic difference without being even slightly obvious, visually. Back to your regular programing.
I will echo this. The bevel does not help avoid top muting. The armrest keeps your elbow even further way. But both minimize the "sharp" edge feel that some experience.
__________________
The Bard Rocks

Fay OM Sinker Redwood/Tiger Myrtle
Sexauer L00 Adk/Magnolia
Hatcher Jumbo Bearclaw/"Bacon" Padauk
Goodall Jumbo POC/flamed Mahogany
McAlister baritone Adk/Bubinga
Appollonio 12 POC/Myrtle
MJ Franks Resonator, all Australian Blackwood
Blackbird "Lucky 13" - carbon fiber
'31 National Duolian
banjos, mandolin, autoharp..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-26-2022, 12:01 AM
cbjanne cbjanne is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 60
Default

I had some forearm discomfort in long playing sessions with my Claxton. A local luthier made me a rosewood arm rest and attached it with a few drops of fish glue, so it can be cleanly removed if necessary. I like how it looks, the discomfort is gone, and there may be some improvement in tone too ó though this might be bias, I donít know. Anyway, Iím very happy with it. Hereís a couple of photos.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 584A87FF-6092-4AC6-99D8-186C92ADCC75.jpg (28.0 KB, 220 views)
File Type: jpg 203F3C4F-B212-417E-BAEB-7D863E4D6E1B.jpg (31.7 KB, 220 views)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-26-2022, 11:10 AM
rdeane rdeane is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 555
Default

I use the ARC arm rest that is custom made for each guitar. It fits perfectly and does indeed make a difference in comfort, volume and tone. JP Cormier reviewed them on his Youtube channel. The price has gone up since I ordered mine, but I think they're still worth it.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-27-2022, 06:08 PM
gitarro gitarro is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,510
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcn View Post
I would recommend giving the Andreas Abel armrest a try. It attaches to the lower bout without damaging the finish and I do find it frees the top.
It works very well but I do find it a pain to screw it in and take it off every time I use it.
__________________
In the end it is about who you love above yourself and what you have stood for and lived for that make the difference...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-27-2022, 07:27 PM
PTL PTL is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 957
Default

I think it depends on how your arm goes over the guitar. My arm rests in such a way that it is on the edge of the top and does not dampen the top without a bevel or armrest. I tried an armrest earlier this year, and it did not help produce more tone. That's when I realized that my arm barely touches the top a smidge, and simply rests on the edge. Also, the armrest did make the body feel thicker, which was not a plus for me.

Also, when seated, I make sure that the back is not touching my body for maximum resonance.

So it depends on how you hold the guitar, as to whether you need an armrest or not.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-01-2022, 01:13 PM
Rudy4 Rudy4 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 7,986
Default

I don't want anything that will increase the depth at the lower bout, even a small amount. I love my body bevel, though.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-01-2022, 01:27 PM
bendandsnap bendandsnap is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: SoCal
Posts: 224
Default

My Kenny Hill nylon guitar has the ugliest arm bevel, but it feels so nice. He literally just saws off the edge of the guitar and glues on a piece of ebony. In any case, armrests make the guitar feel a little thicker, while armbevels feel like the guitar is thinner.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Custom Shop

Tags
arm bevel, arm rest, lutherie, soundboard

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=