Anything I should know before I glue an end pin?

[1Charlie]

And definitely do not whack the end pin with anything in an attempt to drive the pin home.

[tadol]

Santa Cruz does not do plastic pins - they definitely fit smoothly, and are properly tapered to fit - a light whack with a 2 or 3 oz rubber mallet will do no harm - a tiny spot of low-strength water soluble glue is not a big deal either, but shouldn’t be necessary -

Just call the shop - they’ll give you the best info -

[JayBee1404]

Do not whack an end-pin with anything - that’s the route to a split end-block. When you insert the pin, the correct method is to twist it as you push it home by hand. If it’s still loose, either (1) build up the hole with glue, allow to fully dry, then ream out to fit, or (2) build up the pin shaft with glue, allow to fully dry, then sand the pin to fit. My personal preference is (1).

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

I'm not sure how SC does their endpins. I know on Martins the hole is not tapered and it is beneficial to have it tapered to make a solid connection to the pin itself. I've heard of tiny drops of glue being used so it can be removed if necessary.

Jesse,
How recently did Martin stop using a tapered end pin hole?

They've always been tapered to my knowledge, and they would supply a tapered pin to fit it properly.

Taylor, on the other hand, has long been doing a straight bore, and an aluminum threaded end pin with a T-nut. Lowden also has been doing a straight bore, but with a wooden pin as well. Both Taylor and Lowden also were doing a 1/2" diameter hole to negate the 'I don't want to drill a hole in my guitar to put in an end-pin jack' nonsense.

Regards,
Howard Emerson

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Jesse,
How recently did Martin stop using a tapered end pin hole?

They've always been tapered to my knowledge, and they would supply a tapered pin to fit it properly.

Taylor, on the other hand, has long been doing a straight bore, and an aluminum threaded end pin with a T-nut. Lowden also has been doing a straight bore, but with a wooden pin as well. Both Taylor and Lowden also were doing a 1/2" diameter hole to negate the 'I don't want to drill a hole in my guitar to put in an end-pin jack' nonsense.

Regards,
Howard Emerson

It was my impression from reading various posts that the holes are straight. Here are some postings from Howard Klepper about it in this thread.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=323327

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

How recently did Martin stop using a tapered end pin hole?

They've always been tapered to my knowledge, and they would supply a tapered pin to fit it properly.

Since 2004, I’ve bought five brand-new Martins - D-35, J-40, OM-28 Marquis, HD-28V, and D-18. Although the bridge-pins and end-pins all had a 5-deg taper, none had tapered bridge-pin or end-pin holes, all were straight-drilled. Other people with considerable Martin-knowledge have told me that they stopped tapering endpin and bridge-pin holes many years ago, and that must be at least sixteen years by my personal experience.

[tadol]

Originally Posted by JayBee1404

Do not whack an end-pin with anything - that’s the route to a split end-block. When you insert the pin, the correct method is to twist it as you push it home by hand. If it’s still loose, either (1) build up the hole with glue, allow to fully dry, then ream out to fit, or (2) build up the pin shaft with glue, allow to fully dry, then sand the pin to fit. My personal preference is (1).

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

Just to be clear - SC, and most high end builders, no longer use solid wood for end blocks - the standard has been to use finn birch (multi-ply aircraft type plywood, like you might see on high end drawers) for end blocks for some time now. An ebony (or plastic, or bone) pin could be pounded with a framing hammer into this material until the ebony (or maybe the hammer) shatters, and the plywood will not split -

Good advice for antique or vintage (or just older) instruments, and maybe for lower end brands, still.

And yes, all you really should need to do is twist and push it in -

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by tadol

Just to be clear - SC, and most high end builders, no longer use solid wood for end blocks - the standard has been to use finn birch (multi-ply aircraft type plywood, like you might see on high end drawers) for end blocks for some time now. An ebony (or plastic, or bone) pin could be pounded with a framing hammer into this material until the ebony (or maybe the hammer) shatters, and the plywood will not split -

Good advice for antique or vintage (or just older) instruments, and maybe for lower end brands, still.

And yes, all you really should need to do is twist and push it in -

All of my current guitars (see my sig.), and a number of others of similar quality that I’ve moved along, have solid wood end-blocks. I wouldn’t hammer an end-pin into any guitar, irrespective of brand and/or age, but that’s just in my cautious nature. If others hear the advice but are still happy to take the risk, that’s up to them - not my problem.

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

It was my impression from reading various posts that the holes are straight. Here are some postings from Howard Klepper about it in this thread.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=323327

Hi Jesse,
Thank you for enlightening me, and I would never contradict Howard Klepper!

Amazing to me that Martin would not just drill the 15/32" or 1/2" hole and be done with it. Supplying a tapered end pin with a straight hole that forces the buyer to force it in is just moronic.

I'm sure they have some kind of cosmic rationale, to paraphrase my former employer.

HE

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Amazing to me that Martin would not just drill the 15/32" or 1/2" hole and be done with it. Supplying a tapered end pin with a straight hole that forces the buyer to force it in is just moronic.

I'm sure they have some kind of cosmic rationale, to paraphrase my former employer.

HE

Yep - $$$$$$$

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Amazing to me that Martin would not just drill the 15/32" or 1/2" hole and be done with it. Supplying a tapered end pin with a straight hole that forces the buyer to force it in is just moronic.

Same logic, I guess, they use for justifying ramming tapered bridge pins in straight holes.

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Same logic, I guess, they use for justifying ramming tapered bridge pins in straight holes.

Exactly! But there are many out there that just don't understand the idea behind a slotted bridge/unslotted pins and refuse to entertain doing it to or having it done to their guitar because "why didn't Martin do it that way??" Time=Money plain and simple.

[JayBee1404]

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

Exactly! But there are many out there that just don't understand the idea behind a slotted bridge/unslotted pins and refuse to entertain doing it to or having it done to their guitar because "why didn't Martin do it that way??" Time=Money plain and simple.

Right on the button, Uncle! It’s all about the bottom line.

[fingerstile]

After looking through the replies I tried the suggestion of a few turns of plumbers tape around the endpin. Worked perfectly.

Sincere thanks to everyone who replied and helped me avoid problems I wouldn’t have otherwise suspected were lurking. AGF rocks.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by fingerstile

Well I sure am glad I asked! Needless to say I won’t be gluing it. AGF to the rescue again!

I'm going to be a contrarian here and say that two light beads of white glue - like Elmer's glue - on opposite sides of the endpin shaft won't do any harm and can indeed hold the endpin in place until you need to move it, when all you have to do is give the endpin a twist and out it'll come. It's a good idea to avoid keeping the endpin in place when you travel or ship the guitar someplace, because if the instrument receives a sharp blow down there the endpin could be driven into the tailblock.

Which is not good.

But you won't risk anything if you lightly glue the endpin in its hole.

As for wrapping the endpin in electrician's tape or other kinds of tape, the problem there is that with regular use those layers of tape can suddenly compress and then this improvised force fit isn't fitting any longer.

How do I know this? Yes, you guessed it, I learned it the hard way.

So I can't recommend that technique, based on a near-disaster that I only narrowly averted.

Two dots of white glue aren't permanent - it's not as though I'm recommending that you slather the endpin with epoxy or superglue. But that slight amount of white glue there can help keep the endpin from popping out when you least expect it.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller