Does UST always wreck classical sound?

[FrankHS]

Perhaps this belongs on "amplification" forum, but prefer here. For first time ever, i recently heard a Kirk Sand nylon string live in concert, played by a touring pro, solo. The sound was perfect for Jerry Reed style of music, and for jazzy styles, but not for (legato type) classical playing. (He did it all, and well.) Im referring to the end-of-note quack, or, to my ears, clipped, "sizzled" notes almost everywhere. Is this phenomenon a function of UST pickups overamplifying the noisier frequencies? Could it be eliminated by running high action, as many concert classical guitarists do? (Parkening 4 mm at low E, if i recall.) I figure lightning fast runs require low action, which i suppose is also why flamenco players are usually "rattley." They dont mind, apparently, but i do. Also, the low E string "rubbery, oinky" tone was more severe (live) than what i hear on recordings or in youtubes (of amplified nylons string, including KS.) Is it all inevitable tradeoffs among volume, action, and tone? Or is there a better way? Thanks.

[fazool]

My answer is "yes".

I have very rarely ever heard a UST that didn't sound quacky. I am overly sensitive to that and hate that sound so much. I saw my favorite guitarist (Rik Emmett) and he plays some classical pieces. He was playing a piezo equipped guitar and it sounded so horrible I couldn't stand the sound - It was simply awful.

[alnico5]

Alternately, I installed a K&K in my classical and can tell zero difference in the unplugged sound.

[FrankHS]

Interesting. Have you played concerts with such sound 100% plugged in, and classical music (beautiful, or romantic) style? Thanks.

[AxeDude]

I have been thinking of putting a UST in one of my classical guitars and using my ToneDexter. I don’t know why that wouldn’t sound great.

[FrankHS]

AxeDude, i would love to hear that live, but only with a room of listeneners, say, 100 people. Youtube demos and the like seem worthless. Music store demos are a little bit better.

[ceciltguitar]

Might consider:

ToneDexter!!!

https://audiosprockets.com

Barbera Soloist

https://www.barberatransducers.com/guitar_pickups.html

Ultratonic

http://jamesmayengineering.com

[fazool]

Tonedexter seems pretty amazing - more than an acoustic simulator, actually a signal corrector that corrects your own specific guitar.

AGF's own Doug Young did an awesome demo, as usual.

[Bob Womack]

Steve Lukather plays a Yamaha that is either a classical or a nylon crossover onstage when the band plays "99." That is a sweet sounding guitar. Now, he is playing legato lead work on it with a pick. Classical guitar is the guitar type that is least hurt by piezo pickups.



The problem with piezo pickups is that they have far greater dynamic range than the preamps that bring the signal to a useful level to be inserted into mixing consoles or amplifiers. As a result, the transients at the start of a note are pretty horribly overdriven in the preamp stage. OF course, nylon guitars are quieter and have far less dynamic transients than steel-string guitars so the quack is far less noticeable.


However, it is always a trade-off between using a good mic and raising the volume in the room until it activates the guitar body, which is a Helmholz resonator, thus causing feedback. Somewhere along the line you have to decide which is worse, feedback or some quack.



Bob

[lodi_55]

Nylons are my main guitars (both playing and gigging). I really believe that nylon guitars "deal" with piezos a little better than steel. In other words, I seldom hear a piezo "quack" with nylon guitars. I'm not sure if in the nylon world we employ different piezos (such as ribbon USTs and such) than steel.