Does the "F" Chord CHALLENGE EVERYONE?

[Beetlescott]

Originally Posted by Dru Edwards

Great answer Glenn.

Scott - I had the same problem as you and it did take a while before I could play an F chord. Sometimes I felt like it would be impossible but with practice it all comes together eventually ... when depends upon the individual. Good luck!

Thanks again for your input. Lately when I practice songs which use the "F" chord, I have been playing the chord leaving the #1 string, (high E) open. When I strum, I just try to avoid that open string, I find myself trying to deaden it when possible. I think it sounds fine on most of the songs I'm playing, but I am still devoting some of my practice time on playing it properly. By leaving off the one string, am I defeating the purpose? There are 2 particular songs that have the F Chord that I love. One is Elvis Presley's I Cant Help Falling in Love with you, the other is one of my all time favorite Monkees songs Shades of Gray, which is a perfect song. I'm sure most of you have never heard of it, as it was an album song, but it is beautiful on an acoustic guitar.
Again, if by playing it "wrong", is that defeating my future progress?

[macmanmatty]

Originally Posted by Beetlescott

Thanks again for your input. Lately when I practice songs which use the "F" chord, I have been playing the chord leaving the #1 string, (high E) open. When I strum, I just try to avoid that open string, I find myself trying to deaden it when possible. I think it sounds fine on most of the songs I'm playing, but I am still devoting some of my practice time on playing it properly. By leaving off the one string, am I defeating the purpose? There are 2 particular songs that have the F Chord that I love. One is Elvis Presley's I Cant Help Falling in Love with you, the other is one of my all time favorite Monkees songs Shades of Gray, which is a perfect song. I'm sure most of you have never heard of it, as it was an album song, but it is beautiful on an acoustic guitar.
Again, if by playing it "wrong", is that defeating my future progress?

You do need to learn the proper way to play it hit all six strings or a least four. are you only hitting 3? If so that's not a good idea. I can play a full F 6 string chord easily, but it took months of practice to play it right. (actually that's the only F I can play I never learned the cheap 4 string F and my thumb is useless for hitting any note on the low E string.) But I can change to it very fast and move my pinky around to hit an y other note that is needed while retaining the bar shape and the rest of the notes. Also it seems you need to learn some music theory /keys or you'd have already figured out a way to get past the F chord.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by Beetlescott

Thanks again for your input. Lately when I practice songs which use the "F" chord, I have been playing the chord leaving the #1 string, (high E) open. When I strum, I just try to avoid that open string, I find myself trying to deaden it when possible. I think it sounds fine on most of the songs I'm playing, but I am still devoting some of my practice time on playing it properly. By leaving off the one string, am I defeating the purpose? There are 2 particular songs that have the F Chord that I love. One is Elvis Presley's I Cant Help Falling in Love with you, the other is one of my all time favorite Monkees songs Shades of Gray, which is a perfect song. I'm sure most of you have never heard of it, as it was an album song, but it is beautiful on an acoustic guitar.
Again, if by playing it "wrong", is that defeating my future progress?

If it works, it works.
The more you play (any kind of chords), the stronger and more flexible your hand will get, as it adapts to the guitar. So playing a full F should become gradually more within your grasp, even if you don't consciously practise it.

But you will need control of the full barre eventually, for other chords higher up the neck as well as F. It's THE standard movable barre shape, a basic essential. (It's just unfortunate that down at 1st fret is the hardest place to play it, and yet we need F chords quite often.)

It sounds to me like you are using what I call "lazy F" - and I actually recommend this to my beginners as a way of grabbing a usable F chord, before having mastered the full barre. (This may have been posted way back in this thread, I haven't checked )

e - x - mute with side of index
B - 1 - index
G - 2 - middle
D - 3 - pinky
A - 3 - ring
E - x - mute with thumb

It's important you mute those outer strings, if you can't avoid hitting them. But this is an easy one finger per string shape, avoids the barre, and any laziness in the index is benefical if it mutes the top E.
It's also fairly easy to switch to a C and back, probably the most common context for an F chord.

The essential point is that this shape sounds fine. It has all the notes an F chord needs (F A C, in fact 2 Cs).

NB: If you leave the top string open, what you get is "Fmaj7". This is a very nice chord, with a sweet jazzy sound, but it's not "F" - sometimes it will sound OK in place of F, sometimes definitely not.

Tip #2 (which you may also find earlier in the thread ):
If you find songs you love require an F chord - and you have to sing it in the original key - look for ways of using a capo to avoid the barre.
Eg, if you are in key of C major (where F is common), putting a capo on fret 5 will let you pretend the key is G, and an F chord is produced by an easy "C" shape.

Capo 5, key of C major:
Chord sound   Chord shape
C               G
F               C
G(7)            D(7)
Am              Em
Em              Bm
Dm              Am

Notice you don't entirely avoid barre shapes. If your song contains an Em chord, capo on 5 means you need a Bm shape. So you're exchanging one barre chord for another. So it depends what chords the song actually has, whether this "cheat" will work.

If the song you want to play is actually in the key of F (with other barre chords like Bb and Gm) then it's even more advisable to use a capo, on fret 1, 3 or 5.
Fret 1: play with "E" key shapes
Fret 3: play with "D" key shapes
Fret 5: play with "C" key shapes
Again, however, while this will reduce the number of barres required, it may not get rid of them entirely.

[Ghostpicker]

Originally Posted by Jeremy

I had an easier time with it once I started pressing down with more of the side of the index finger.

This worked for me as well - plus once you've mastered the barred F chord it opens up the whole neck to you in terms of using that shape to play any Major chord. A simple shift in the fingers then you can play any minor chord.

Hanging out at the barre can sometimes be a good thing.

[Beetlescott]

Thanks everyone for all the advice. I think my problem has been my guitar needs to be set up, I have been using my 12 string most of the time the last few days, and I noticed something today. I was playing the F chord easily! It is easy to do with this guitar. I think the strings are too high up off the fret. I'm not talking about the full bar F, but the top 2 strings held down with my index finger, strings 3 & 4 with middle finger and ring finger.

[tabl10s]

Originally Posted by Beetlescott

I guess this is probably the most elementary of all questions. I am pretty sure that everyone who comes to this site has probably passed this problem up long ago. I can play the "F" chord, but there are days.....I not only have a problem with the F, but I am having a time using my index finger to bar all the way across the fret board! I have buddies who seem to be able to do this as easily as I can play C. Please tell me i'm not alone here!!! Let me hear some stories of how you overcame the "F" chord??

Piece-a-Cake. Wait till you try Jazz chords where two strings have to be held down with a finger tip bent at 90 degrees(it sucks). Further down the road is trying to pick every note with out using hammer-on/Pull-it's like Steve Morse our Al DiMeola.

[Beetlescott]

Originally Posted by JonPR

If it works, it works.
The more you play (any kind of chords), the stronger and more flexible your hand will get, as it adapts to the guitar. So playing a full F should become gradually more within your grasp, even if you don't consciously practise it.

But you will need control of the full barre eventually, for other chords higher up the neck as well as F. It's THE standard movable barre shape, a basic essential. (It's just unfortunate that down at 1st fret is the hardest place to play it, and yet we need F chords quite often.)

It sounds to me like you are using what I call "lazy F" - and I actually recommend this to my beginners as a way of grabbing a usable F chord, before having mastered the full barre. (This may have been posted way back in this thread, I haven't checked )

e - x - mute with side of index
B - 1 - index
G - 2 - middle
D - 3 - pinky
A - 3 - ring
E - x - mute with thumb

It's important you mute those outer strings, if you can't avoid hitting them. But this is an easy one finger per string shape, avoids the barre, and any laziness in the index is benefical if it mutes the top E.
It's also fairly easy to switch to a C and back, probably the most common context for an F chord.

The essential point is that this shape sounds fine. It has all the notes an F chord needs (F A C, in fact 2 Cs).

NB: If you leave the top string open, what you get is "Fmaj7". This is a very nice chord, with a sweet jazzy sound, but it's not "F" - sometimes it will sound OK in place of F, sometimes definitely not.

Tip #2 (which you may also find earlier in the thread ):
If you find songs you love require an F chord - and you have to sing it in the original key - look for ways of using a capo to avoid the barre.
Eg, if you are in key of C major (where F is common), putting a capo on fret 5 will let you pretend the key is G, and an F chord is produced by an easy "C" shape.

Capo 5, key of C major:
Chord sound   Chord shape
C               G
F               C
G(7)            D(7)
Am              Em
Em              Bm
Dm              Am

Notice you don't entirely avoid barre shapes. If your song contains an Em chord, capo on 5 means you need a Bm shape. So you're exchanging one barre chord for another. So it depends what chords the song actually has, whether this "cheat" will work.

If the song you want to play is actually in the key of F (with other barre chords like Bb and Gm) then it's even more advisable to use a capo, on fret 1, 3 or 5.
Fret 1: play with "E" key shapes
Fret 3: play with "D" key shapes
Fret 5: play with "C" key shapes
Again, however, while this will reduce the number of barres required, it may not get rid of them entirely.

Thanks very much for your help. As I mentioned in another post, lately I have began playing my 12 string more, and, to my delight, the "F" chord, is much easier. Now, I can't play the full bar though, I use my index finger on string # 1 & 2 and then on up. I didn't know about how the capo can be used though, thanks very much for that nugget. As many of you have said, I am still practicing learning the full bar, but I definitely have a long way to go, but I can sure tell i'm getting better. I am learning so much from you good people. Many sites wouldn't take the time for a greenhorn, but you all have been very helpful.

[Beetlescott]

Again, Thanks everyone for your help! After being able to more or less master the "cheaters F" on my 12 string, i'm more convinced than ever I need to have my 6 string set up. Can someone give me an idea where the best place to have this done? Will Guitar Center be able to do it? Thanks in advance.

scott

[jmachin]

I can't do any chord shape involving barring with the index while using the thumb over the top. As I move my thumb over the top it kind of pulls my index finger out of shape. Any song I play at the moment with an F in it is just played extremely slowly to give myself time to change to Barre F.

[Senna1]

Originally Posted by Beetlescott

Again, Thanks everyone for your help! After being able to more or less master the "cheaters F" on my 12 string, i'm more convinced than ever I need to have my 6 string set up.

This is really easy to test; just put a capo on the 1st fret of your 6-str. If you can suddenly play a full F on it while capo-ed (barre in the 2nd fret), high action at the nut is indeed causing your problems. If you're muting the same strings you were before using the capo, then it's probably your technique and not the guitar.

I'm in the same place as you, and it's very frustrating. Pretty much any open chord is no problem after a couple months of practice (quick changes are another matter), but as soon as I see that 'F' on a tab sheet, it ruins my day.

I can make a barre on its own, but I have to exert a huge amount of pressure on the neck to ring all 6 strings. Tilting the finger back towards the nut helps, but not enough, and the pressure required to hold the barre fatigues my hand quickly. (The rotation also makes forming the chord shape behind the bar very difficult)

I'm sure it's mostly a matter of practice, but there's definitely something I haven't "gotten" yet too. I'm hoping it clicks sooner or later.

[Monk of Funk]

To me, the F chord, is exactly the same as every other major chord, except for the variations that use open strings.

I'm going to assume that you use those open string chords nearly exclusively.

I really hate those actually, and steer clear of them as much as possible. The F major, doesn't have one of those, so I guess I find it awesome.

I play power chords with my thumb down on the low E, the index covering the top 2 strings, and then the others as you'd expect.

There is also teh F that is like the D chord shape, a little further up the neck, and there is also one that is the B shape, further up still, which is really easy to play, especially if you drop the high E string, because you can play it with just two fingers flat on the fretboard, 2 frets appart and the first finger goes one string lower than the second, 2 frets up.

[johnd]

Sorry if this was already covered in the 8 pages (!) but I always wondered, is the ideal that when playing a standard barred F, it sounds identical to playing a standard E with capo on the 1st fret?

[TJE]

^^^^^ Well if it isn't Ive missed it totally!

Tony

[Monk of Funk]

Originally Posted by johnd

Sorry if this was already covered in the 8 pages (!) but I always wondered, is the ideal that when playing a standard barred F, it sounds identical to playing a standard E with capo on the 1st fret?

ya, that's the low major shape. If you move it up one more fret, it's F#, then G, etc.. all major. You can do this with every chord. Barre chords are just your fingers being a capo.

As i mentioned above, I almost exclusively play those. I only play those open chords when I run out of room and have to.

They have a nice sustain if that's what you want though, so they can be useful.

[johnd]

Well yes, obviously it's the same shape, and if I capo on the 4th fret and play E this is a G# with the exact same strings fretted in the same places. My question is if me playing a barred G# should be indistinguishable - should the barred notes ring out just as clearly when pressed with my finger as when pressed by a solid steel capo? For me, they wouldn't sound identical, the barred strings would always be a little mushy in comparison - I don't know if this is acceptable/normal, or a sign of poor playing.