The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 07-02-2018, 02:39 PM
noledog's Avatar
noledog noledog is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Florida's First Coast
Posts: 7,530
Default

I perform outside on the Florida Coast; Ameila Island, Jax, St. Augustine several days a week every week doing four hour shows and sometimes two a day, as well as, playin' on cruise ships. So my D-18, 000-18, and Tak KC70 are subject to a ton of heat and humidity and they are fine...I come home, hang them on the wall hangers in my home that stays around 50 to 57% RH so they slowly have some dry time, but nuthin' extreme. So I guess my guitars are acclimated to it....so I personally would not worry a few hours about doin' some porch pickin'. This has been my experience livin' from Miami to N. Fl over decades.

Go enjoy, be sensible about it and make music!

eric
__________________
NOLE TUNES & Coastal Acoustic Music one love jam!
Martin D18 & 3 lil' birdz; Takamine KC70, P3NC x 2
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-02-2018, 02:44 PM
gr81dorn gr81dorn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Charlie View Post
I wonder how all of the vintage, pre-air conditioning Martins, Gibsons and Guilds out there made it through those years of heat/humidity and cold/dry cycles without completely falling apart?
I'd argue the correct answer is actually that the wood was different - true old-growth timbers, dried in a different way, tended to differently at other steps in the process and built and finished with different materials than we use today.

Try as many builders may, it's pretty much impossible to emulate a build from the 30s or 40s. You can get pretty close, though.

All that being said, my original point is still worth noting - the guitar is made to LIVE in a certain environment, it can travel and spend time in others (careful for extreme extremes) and it will be just fine, just make sure it gets home to it's ideal environment when you're done and it should do real well.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-02-2018, 05:32 PM
lar lar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: san diego
Posts: 906
Default

You should go to manufacturer websites (and/or call them) and see what they say. Not sure what your guitar is, but the manufacturer of your guitar is a good place to start.

I've found the most useful heat/humidity information on Larrivve's website.

https://www.larrivee.com/pdfs/Larriv...aintenance.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-02-2018, 05:40 PM
justonwo's Avatar
justonwo justonwo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 7,120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Charlie View Post
Hmmm...That must be why there are "only" 496 pre-1970 Martins and 804 pre-1970 Gibsons listed on Reverb alone.

They are expensive because they are awesome, not because they are particularly rare (with some notable exceptions, such as herringbone pre-war D-28's).

For instance, 700 D-18's were made in 1960. Sure, that's small compared to modern production numbers, but nowhere near as rare as some modern small luthier copies.

I own six examples of Martins and Gibsons dated 1960 or earlier. They stay in tune better, and resist humidity and temperature changes better than any modern guitar I have ever owned.
I believe as woods naturally lose moisture content over the years, they become less and less influenced by changes in humidity.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-02-2018, 05:55 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,316
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Methos1979 View Post
The only definitive answer is to buy a carbon fiber guitar. I only take my Martin out in nice weather. The Emerald X20 can and does get taken out into any and all hostile environments with no fear of, well, anything!
For playing in any and every extreme environment, carbon fiber guitars cannot be beat! Too hot, too cold, too humid, too dry. Does NOT matter. Carbon fiber guitars stay the same in every environment. They stay in tune in any environment, and neither extreme temperatures nor humidity will damage the instrument. Leave them in your trunk for weeks in either Death Valley in July or above the arctic circle in January. Even play in the rain, no problem. Well, don't play plugged in in the rain, because of electronics.

There are a lot of beautiful sounding, beautiful-to-look-at carbon fiber guitars, lots of options in terms of specs.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-02-2018, 06:10 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,316
Default

OOPS! Maybe not leave carbon fiber guitars in the trunk! I just stumbled across this post in a discussion on the carbon fiber section of this forum:

[QUOTE=Maryc-k;5772544]There have been instances in extreme heat that CF instruments have melted. Rainsong had some guitars melt when stored in car trunks on hot days. So, I'd still be careful. If there are wooden parts (fretboard, bridge, etc.) on the guitar (I am not familiar with Emerald) you still need to be conscious of their environment.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-02-2018, 06:16 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,316
Default

Here is the thread that I referenced:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=515302

And here is a comment posted after the last comment that I quoted was posted:

"That issue with Rainsong epoxy and heat is long, long past. I recall, for a very brief time, well past a decade(s) ago, they once used an epoxy that didn't do well in high heat (resins can be purchased for various properties including heat resistance) and immediately switched to high heat resistant resin. The guitars did not develop problems if stored normally.

There were very, very few guitars made with this resin and Rainsong replaced any guitar that was brought to them without question whether it was under warranty or not.

A friend of mine who plays professionally, had one of these guitars stored in excessive heat (he doesn't treat any of his guitars well, actually) and it became unplayable years after his warranty was over. Rainsong replaced it without question with outstanding service.

From time to time, one of these old model guitars becomes a discussed topic, but it's old news. If I were planning on buying a Rainsong, it's the last thing that would concern me. What I remember most is how well they treated this customer."
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-02-2018, 08:33 PM
Simon Fay Simon Fay is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 1,789
Default

Just to clarify - we are talking about high humidity and not low humidity. Bare wood does respond fairly quickly to extreme humidity and begins to warp in under an hour. The bracing and finish slow this process and also lock the top into a pre-formed structure. As it gains moisture, the top will swell and the action will rise. The important thing is just to watch the geometry of your guitar. IF the action rises substantially by the end of your playing period, then you need to shorten your exposure time.

A typical Martin will be braced much heavier and will be much thicker than my instruments - so it would likely be able to deal with humidity longer. I've never done experiments when my own guitars but I would think that within a couple of hours to extreme humidity, that there would be geometry changes. I don't think these would be damaging changes and should be reversible BUT I haven't tested this and don't plan on doing so. My recommendation for my work would be to just avoid exposing the guitar to extremes of humidity.

As for why there are old guitars that were poorly treated that are still in existence. Many of these older instruments do have problems and lots of them have cracks in the top and back - very few are in mint condition.

In short, your guitars are not going to be ruined if you expose them to extreme humidity for a hour or two. BUT there will likely be some geometry changes. OVer time, this may compromise the structure. Why risk it? And again, we are talking about extreme humdity conditions (like 80% or 25% humidity).

Early on, I built my brother a guitar. He lives in the northeast and it survived about 2 years without being in a case. But eventually it developed a crack. The guitar is still alive and kicking but it did crack. If he pulled it out for a few hours and then put it in its case, I don't think it would have a crack but I also think it would have altered geometry from when it was first built. You have a number of folks reporting playing for hours at a time without incident - but I feel like that is taking a risk with a delicately built guitar. My gut feeling is to limit to 1 hour BUT I have not done experimentation. So it is an informed opinion but not fact.

Hope that clarifies my earlier comment.
__________________
Luthier
New Smyrna Beach, FL
www.fayguitars.com

Last edited by Simon Fay; 07-02-2018 at 08:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Tags
humidity

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=