Why do different guitars of the same model sound so different?

[tsmith28]

It's common knowledge around here that, when shopping for a new guitar, it's best to try out a bunch for a given model and choose the specific guitar that feels & sounds best. I totally understand the playability part, since setups are always a bit different. But it boggles my mind how different, in my experience, two guitars of the same model (with similar setups) can sound.

I recently encountered this with a pair of Martin D10E's and a pair of Yamaha FG800's. In both cases, one guitar sounded great while the other sounded flat & thin by comparison. Obviously all of the materials, bracing, CNC cuts, etc were identical. This leads me to believe that the differences lie in the specific pieces of wood used in each instrument. There could also be a discrepancy between how much each guitar has been played and opened up.

Thoughts? Is there something else I'm not thinking of?

[ewalling]

Why do hurricanes and mosquitoes exist? There are some things in life whose purpose seems little more than to mess with us!

[fitness1]

The builder didn't grow the tree.

[rstaight]

Originally Posted by ewalling

Why do hurricanes and mosquitoes exist? There are some things in life whose purpose seems little more than to mess with us!

I think you may be wright.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by ewalling

Why do hurricanes and mosquitoes exist? There are some things in life whose purpose seems little more than to mess with us!

Perhaps hurricanes happen to be a normal part the eco system, and mosquitoes think that we and other critters are an essential food resource.

Seems this world wasn't built for just us, and I'm kinda wondering what purpose we serve in it.

BTW Both the Hurricane and the Mosquito were enormously helpful during WW2! arf arf!

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by tsmith28

It's common knowledge around here that, when shopping for a new guitar, it's best to try out a bunch for a given model and choose the specific guitar that feels & sounds best. I totally understand the playability part, since setups are always a bit different. But it boggles my mind how different, in my experience, two guitars of the same model (with similar setups) can sound.

I recently encountered this with a pair of Martin D10E's and a pair of Yamaha FG800's. In both cases, one guitar sounded great while the other sounded flat & thin by comparison. Obviously all of the materials, bracing, CNC cuts, etc were identical. This leads me to believe that the differences lie in the specific pieces of wood used in each instrument. There could also be a discrepancy between how much each guitar has been played and opened up.

Thoughts? Is there something else I'm not thinking of?

Hi, people ask about all aspects of guitars and what affects the tone/sound/volume. The simple answer is "everything".

Equally, any two identical guitar will actually differ in many different, if subtle ways.

Even the action and the life of the strings will make a difference.
Even how many people or how or how much it was played will make a difference.

Let's face it even our own guitars will sound different day to day due to the above and environmental considerations, and of course, our hearing/attitude, or maybe how many coffees we had.

[J Patrick]

….I don’t know if you were comparing new or used guitars but….…in my experience nothing affects the sound of any guitar as much as string choice and condition.(other than the player)..….a guitar can sound pretty bad to me and if I change the strings to one of my preferred sets it can sound great…..

[warfrat73]

Yeah, strings and string condition can have a lot to do with it. As can the conditions/situation in which you are playing.

It's also that wood is quite a variable material. Even minor differences in the weight and stiffness of the top wood and the bracing will deliver different tones... and those increase as the differences in the raw materials do.

[zeeway]

Wood is made by nature and not in a steel mill…that is, its composition and structure will vary piece to piece, even if it is from the same tree. The wood in Stradivarius violins was thought to be special because the wood used came from a forest that may have experienced a ‘mini-ice age’…and so the trees grew very slowly making a particularly dense wood. Any tree experiences changes in climate that vary from year to year, affecting growth rates and wood structure. If the wood is cut across the grain lines it will have a different structure than a piece cut with the grain lines…are you asleep yet?

So I hope by now you believe as I do that no two pieces of wood are identical. The master luthiers will tap the material for a soundboard to make sure it rings with the right resonance, and somehow they get it right. Can a factory automate this process? If anyone can, Yamaha can…and even their guitars vary…why…yep, it is because wood varies. Amen. End of sermon

[edward993]

Originally Posted by tsmith28

...I recently encountered this with a pair of Martin D10E's and a pair of Yamaha FG800's. In both cases, one guitar sounded great while the other sounded flat & thin by comparison. Obviously all of the materials, bracing, CNC cuts, etc were identical. This leads me to believe that the differences lie in the specific pieces of wood used in each instrument. There could also be a discrepancy between how much each guitar has been played and opened up.

Thoughts? Is there something else I'm not thinking of?

1. Remember that your conclusion of "sounded great" and "flat and thin" will absolutely be different for each set of ears. So right there, at point one, there is no objective standard for what constitutes a "good sounding" guitar. Let alone what you, yourself, may feel on another day, or year. We change, arguably more than the guitar, itself

2. Already been said, but wood was a living thing that grew under myriad conditions, none of which can be duplicated in sum. Same-species will vary in a whole lot of ways, all of which affect its resonance when strings start to move it. Heck, this can even be true of man-made products whose components can be genuinely identical, but come to assembly, every minute difference produces a final difference that can be felt. Engine assembly is an example that comes immediately to mind: same exact components (unlike wood), yet when dyno'd at the end can vary significantly.

3. Guitars of identical specs built consecutively will vary by nuance, despite CNC accuracy and ardent human desire: glue thickness, seams, the countless tolerances between components. Any one variance may not amount to much, if anything; in sum, small variances can --and often do-- translate to the guitar's voice being different despite their being "identical."

4. The guitar's age and how often played certainly will alter its voice.



Edward

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Perhaps hurricanes happen to be a normal part the eco system, and mosquitoes think that we and other critters are an essential food resource.

Seems this world wasn't built for just us, and I'm kinda wondering what purpose we serve in it.

BTW Both the Hurricane and the Mosquito were enormously helpful during WW2! arf arf!

I stand corrected!

Maybe it's just guitars of the same model sounding different that exist to mess with us, after all!

[tsmith28]

Originally Posted by J Patrick

….I don’t know if you were comparing new or used guitars but….…in my experience nothing affects the sound of any guitar as much as string choice and condition.(other than the player)..….a guitar can sound pretty bad to me and if I change the strings to one of my preferred sets it can sound great…..

I agree, but for the pairs of guitars I compared in my OP I put on a new set of identical strings on the same day and played both guitars in the same spot in the same room. They still sounded quite different. The only variables that I know of were age & playing history of the guitars as well as the actual pieces of wood.

[tsmith28]

Originally Posted by warfrat73

It's also that wood is quite a variable material. Even minor differences in the weight and stiffness of the top wood and the bracing will deliver different tones... and those increase as the differences in the raw materials do.

Yeah, after doing my A/B comparisons I'm left to believe that this is the main reason why "identical" guitars sound so different.

[donlyn]

Why do different guitars of the same model sound so different?

Which is why "Try before buy" is such an important axiom to follow.

Don
.

[ewalling]

Originally Posted by donlyn

Why do different guitars of the same model sound so different?

Which is why "Try before buy" is such an important axiom to follow.

Don
.

In Miami, that works for cheap mass-produced instruments from overseas (usually the Far East) or for a very limited number from the 'Big Three.' Everything else we have to take a gamble on through online sales.