fret levelling - good or bad?

[nkshirsagar]

The luthier who services my guitars always levels the frets when he notices the frets aren't exactly the same height. I always think this takes away a little playability, somehow. Somehow after fret levelling, the guitar touch seems gone, it seems more difficult to play. Bar chords that used to be effortless now need hard pressing of the index (bar) finger.

Am I imagining this, or does fret levelling actually cause some harm to the action?

would appreciate thoughts on this.

[rick-slo]

Lower fret height can make it harder to fret with a clean sound.

[Bob Womack]

I've got five guitars in with my luthier/tech right now, four for fret leveling and setup and one for a refret after twenty-two years.

A really complete setup involves making sure the frets are level. However, there are two directions to go with a fret: up or down. Two of my guitars had a couple of low frets. The options were to file all the rest of the frets down to match or unseat, reseat, and glue the low frets back in at a level to match the rest. These were brand new guitars, so my luthier decided to go with with the latter option, raising the lower frets. He smiled and said, "It makes more sense than reducing the height and life of all the rest of the frets." However, if you have a couple of high frets it make more sense to just drop their height. So, it is a compromise.

Bob

[zmf]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Lower fret height can make it harder to fret with a clean sound.

Dumb question, perhaps, but would low frets make it more difficult to get clean hammer-ons? I have one guitar that seems worse at this than others.

[RoyBoy]

Originally Posted by nkshirsagar

The luthier who services my guitars always levels the frets when he notices the frets aren't exactly the same height. I always think this takes away a little playability, somehow. Somehow after fret levelling, the guitar touch seems gone, it seems more difficult to play. Bar chords that used to be effortless now need hard pressing of the index (bar) finger.

Am I imagining this, or does fret levelling actually cause some harm to the action?

would appreciate thoughts on this.

Fret leveling does not harm the action when done completely and correctly. That is, leveling all the frets to the same plane. You then have to set the saddle height and perhaps nut slots to the correct heights for the new fret level. It's actually a pretty big job because after leveling comes the processes of crowning, sanding, and polishing the frets as well as readjusting the action.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by zmf

Dumb question, perhaps, but would low frets make it more difficult to get clean hammer-ons? I have one guitar that seems worse at this than others.

Yes for hammer ons and pull-offs if the frets get low enough and worse with very low action height.

[L20A]

In this case, I would think that the OP is just imagining the problem.
Unless all the frets were lowered a good amount, the fret leveling should make the guitar easier to play.

[Diamond Dave]

You know, if a high fret isn’t causing a problem (like a bend fretting out, or a string buzzing), why level them?

[AfterViewer]

Originally Posted by RoyBoy

Fret leveling does not harm the action when done completely and correctly. That is, leveling all the frets to the same plane. You then have to set the saddle height and perhaps nut slots to the correct heights for the new fret level. It's actually a pretty big job because after leveling comes the processes of crowning, sanding, and polishing the frets as well as readjusting the action.

In theory.

[dnf777]

Rather than answer the question, let me add to the confusion, with a request for clarification.

Are frets leveled with the neck in neutral relief (ie, FLAT), or with the neck relief set AS IT WILL BE PLAYED?

I ask, not to confuse, but hopefully to clarify, since many amateur DIY luthiers will removed the strings, then perform the fret level without realizing that when restrung, the neck will likely bow slightly, creating a degree of relief, which may or may not be desired. That can easily be adjusted in or out with the truss rod, but my question is, should the leveling be done on a neck jig, to re-create the playing relief as if it were strung? Because, just say the player likes his neck with minimal to no relief, unstringing it may create a slight back bow, and leveling THAT will create low mid-neck frets.

I always check that the NECK is flat with a slotted straight edge, before leveling the FRETS. Otherwise, you may be let to believe your neck is flat and frets level, when in fact they are NOT. Not saying this is the right way, or the only way, but I've heard differing opinions on this from accomplished luthiers.

[OldFrets]

Originally Posted by AfterViewer

In theory.

And in practice.

[blindboyjimi]

Wait a second. No one is mentioning that there are only 2 factors in play. First fret leveling should make the guitar much easier to play but the nut acts as a zero fret so if he’s leveling but not working on the nut then absolutely it will make it harder to play in the first position but capo’d at the first fret, should make it play perfectly. The relief must be adjusted too, so basically if you dress the frets you need to tweak the nut, action (saddle) and relief back to your preference.

The second is how tall are your frets were to begin with. There will be no difference in playing, pull-offs or hammer-ons until the frets get very low like below 0.035” thou some folks play down to 0.030”. If my guitars get to 0.035” then it’s time for a refret. I refret with Jescar 47095 or even 55090 which are 0.047” and 0.055” tall respectively. If one takes a few thousandths off you’d never notice, but if you are starting with frets that are from an 80s Martin which used to use 0.037” tall as new, then you’ll barely get one or two fret dressings. Martin currently uses taller frets now (since 2012) which are 0.043” x 0.080” and are still 0.037" x 0.080" on Authentics.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by Diamond Dave

You know, if a high fret isn’t causing a problem (like a bend fretting out, or a string buzzing), why level them?

There's no reason to to level a fret that isn't causing a problem, but they usually do, unless you want a very high action. Almost every guitar I buy comes with a higher action than I am accustomed to. When I ask my luthier (and he is a luthier) to lower the action, there is usually a fretboard limitation, typically a high or low fret or frets, that must be ameliorated before the action can come down.

An example is the Martin OM-28 I took in a week ago. It was set up at the factory with the Plek machine. I misdiagnosed it as a simple high action at the nut, but as it turned out that frets two and three were lower than the rest. The action was high at nut and saddle to allow that low area to fret without buzz. Another example was the Les Paul I took in at the same time for a set up. This guitar was set up at the factory with the Plek machine. The action was higher at the nut and lower at the 12fret than my properly set-up ES-335. It turned out that there was a high fret up past the 12th that was limiting how low the nut could be lowered but not the bridge. The net results were that the brand new ~.050 frets didn't feel as secure in a bend as the ~.043 frets remaining (after fifteen years) on the properly set up ES-335.

So, there are usually good reasons to level the frets, either up or down.

Bob

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by blindboyjimi

There will be no difference in playing, pull-offs or hammer-ons until the frets get very low like below 0.035” thou some folks play down to 0.030”. If my guitars get to 0.035” then it’s time for a refret.

I prefer 0.047" height and have my guitars fretted with that and in stainless steel or EVO gold to make sure they stay that way for a long time.

[tommieboy]

Originally Posted by RoyBoy

Fret leveling does not harm the action when done completely and correctly. That is, leveling all the frets to the same plane. You then have to set the saddle height and perhaps nut slots to the correct heights for the new fret level. It's actually a pretty big job because after leveling comes the processes of crowning, sanding, and polishing the frets as well as readjusting the action.

I concur. I typically let my tech make the call on all of those items.

Tommy