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  #31  
Old 04-08-2013, 01:13 PM
steveyam steveyam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugeyed View Post
Steve, can you outline your procedure for adjusting the nut height? I have always adjusted the nut slots to the height of the frets &, when fretting the string above the 2nd, the string should "just" clear the 1st fret. I would like to see if your procedure works for me in some situations. Just wanting another tool for my tool box.

Cheers,
kev
Hi Kev, it would be my pleasure. Well, firstly, as I say (!) my final setup point is the nut slots depth. So we're saying you're already happy with the action at the 12th? Yeah? Right. I have a 'complete set' of Stewmac nut files so that I can cut slots - as near as possible - to a size just above the string size to be used. If it is a new, blank nut, then lets consider all aspects of the slot. The sideways angle of cut is (obviously) not parallel with the fretboard, and neither is it parallel with the headstock face, it's between the two. The aim is twofold. To create sufficient back angle that the string is always cleanly in contact with the front edge of nut, even when picked/vibrating strongly. Secondly, without too much back angle that will cause stiction as the strings pass over a 'sharp' edge at the front of the nut and also that it may not lie firmly on the slot bed. As you can see, the ideal requirements for these two things are diametrically opposed, so it has to be a compromise; a 'measured' approach that satisfies both; good slippage (minimal stiction) yet a strong, clear note, without 'muzziness' or citar-like effects due to insufficient back angle. Viewed from on top, I don't cut the slots in line with the fretboard, neither do I 'aim' the slots at the string posts. Again, I 'split the difference'. Basically there are two break angles to consider. If you point the slot directly at the wrap point of the post, then the frontal break point at the leading edge of the nut will be too sharp (stiction again). Similarly if you cut the slot straight, there's a friction point at the back of the slot where the string goes off to the post. At this point I also file an extra, small 'escape angle' at the back of the slot that helps reduce friction in both planes as the strings exits the back of the nut, smoothing it carefully into the major slot bed. Now, depth. if you are wanting to perform a setup that most players would perhaps consider fine, then there's the old tried (and much repeated) test of holding down the string between the 2nd and 3rd frets, then with another finger, check to see that you can 'dab' the string down on to the first fret. When you get the slot to right depth, the dab test is subtle for sure, but you can feel it - don't go too far, if in doubt don't go any lower. I always make sure that the wound strings and particularly the bottom E string are higher in the dab test. String and tune up and play the guitar. WRT the action at the nut, is it what you and/or the client wants? How easy is it to fret chords such as E, F, G, A, D etc? Do all notes ring out nicely? Can you hold all strings in the chord down easily? If so, you may choose to leave it at that, that's fine. However, if I, or I feel that the client would appreciate the 'nut area action' even lower into the area where chording is dreamy easy, then - having done this many, many times before - I'll go for some more lowering of the slots. I perform this with the guitar fully strung and I'll lift each string to one side as I work on its slot. But I have to stress, at this level, it's easy to make a mistake and lower it too much. So my advice is don't get too ambitious at first. Finally I use some abrasive cording to polish the slots and then I apply dry graphite in the slots and carefully lower the string down on to the graphite and tune up and down to condition/prime the string with the graphite.

Kev, reading it back I feel I may have 'over answered' your question, and my apologies if you already knew a lot of that. But that's how I cut nut slots anyway. The procedure didn't happen overnight, I didn't read it in a text book (and there was no 'online' when I started out), and there's been mistakes and tears (mine) along the way. It is the result of much thought, my engineering background/principles and much trial and error.
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  #32  
Old 04-08-2013, 01:37 PM
Bugeyed Bugeyed is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveyam View Post
Hi Kev, it would be my pleasure. Well, firstly, as I say (!) my final setup point is the nut slots depth. So we're saying you're already happy with the action at the 12th? Yeah? Right. I have a 'complete set' of Stewmac nut files so that I can cut slots - as near as possible - to a size just above the string size to be used. If it is a new, blank nut, then lets consider all aspects of the slot. The sideways angle of cut is (obviously) not parallel with the fretboard, and neither is it parallel with the headstock face, it's between the two. The aim is twofold. To create sufficient back angle that the string is always cleanly in contact with the front edge of nut, even when picked/vibrating strongly. Secondly, without too much back angle that will cause stiction as the strings pass over a 'sharp' edge at the front of the nut and also that it may not lie firmly on the slot bed. As you can see, the ideal requirements for these two things are diametrically opposed, so it has to be a compromise; a 'measured' approach that satisfies both; good slippage (minimal stiction) yet a strong, clear note, without 'muzziness' or citar-like effects due to insufficient back angle. Viewed from on top, I don't cut the slots in line with the fretboard, neither do I 'aim' the slots at the string posts. Again, I 'split the difference'. Basically there are two break angles to consider. If you point the slot directly at the wrap point of the post, then the frontal break point at the leading edge of the nut will be too sharp (stiction again). Similarly if you cut the slot straight, there's a friction point at the back of the slot where the string goes off to the post. At this point I also file an extra, small 'escape angle' at the back of the slot that helps reduce friction in both planes as the strings exits the back of the nut, smoothing it carefully into the major slot bed. Now, depth. if you are wanting to perform a setup that most players would perhaps consider fine, then there's the old tried (and much repeated) test of holding down the string between the 2nd and 3rd frets, then with another finger, check to see that you can 'dab' the string down on to the first fret. When you get the slot to right depth, the dab test is subtle for sure, but you can feel it - don't go too far, if in doubt don't go any lower. I always make sure that the wound strings and particularly the bottom E string are higher in the dab test. String and tune up and play the guitar. WRT the action at the nut, is it what you and/or the client wants? How easy is it to fret chords such as E, F, G, A, D etc? Do all notes ring out nicely? Can you hold all strings in the chord down easily? If so, you may choose to leave it at that, that's fine. However, if I, or I feel that the client would appreciate the 'nut area action' even lower into the area where chording is dreamy easy, then - having done this many, many times before - I'll go for some more lowering of the slots. I perform this with the guitar fully strung and I'll lift each string to one side as I work on its slot. But I have to stress, at this level, it's easy to make a mistake and lower it too much. So my advice is don't get too ambitious at first. Finally I use some abrasive cording to polish the slots and then I apply dry graphite in the slots and carefully lower the string down on to the graphite and tune up and down to condition/prime the string with the graphite.

Kev, reading it back I feel I may have 'over answered' your question, and my apologies if you already knew a lot of that. But that's how I cut nut slots anyway. The procedure didn't happen overnight, I didn't read it in a text book (and there was no 'online' when I started out), and there's been mistakes and tears (mine) along the way. It is the result of much thought, my engineering background/principles and much trial and error.
Thanks for being thorough. I especially liked the bit about "all aspects of the slots".

Thanks,
kev
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  #33  
Old 04-08-2013, 07:12 PM
John Arnold John Arnold is offline
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Quote:
If you set the nut slots for the lowest of actions; ie the strings are just 'skimming', though not actually buzzing on the first fret, then if you subsequently lower the action at the saddle, it may be the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. Quite simply, YOU MAY END UP WITH A BUZZ AT THE FIRST FRET.
In my experience, the scenario you have described only occurs when the nut slots are below the fret plane. In other words, if the nut is the correct height, it never happens.
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  #34  
Old 04-08-2013, 08:30 PM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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There is a slight fret buzz on the wound strings that has nothing to do with string height. It occurs right on top of the fret you are fretting. Fret crown shape affects it's magnitude as does how hard you push down on the fret. Maybe you are noticing this.
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