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  #196  
Old 12-07-2022, 02:33 PM
Benjo Benjo is offline
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I have no 1st hand insight into this but I would guess that professional touring musicians would want to bring an easily replaceable guitar on tour with them since Guitars can get trashed in transit so I bet we don't see them playing their really nice expensive non-touring guitars at home. That was one of the things Leo Kottke talked about the advantages of doing his Taylor signature model since he could easily replace them while on tour.

I wonder if it's common for them to record with their nicer guitars and tour with their more easily replaceable less expensive guitars.
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  #197  
Old 12-07-2022, 05:42 PM
steveh steveh is offline
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Originally Posted by Benjo View Post
I would guess that professional touring musicians would want to bring an easily replaceable guitar on tour with them since Guitars can get trashed in transit so I bet we don't see them playing their really nice expensive non-touring guitars at home.
John Mayer and his Traugott come to mind here.
Also, remember endorsements. Martin can pay a whole lot more than Jeff, so which one do you need to be seen on stage with?

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  #198  
Old 12-07-2022, 05:44 PM
steveh steveh is offline
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Originally Posted by Adamski View Post
I was a professional violinist. I played "The Lady Blunt" Stradivarius just before the Sotheby's auction in 1985 where it sold for £820,000 setting a world record (it subsequently sold for £9,800,000 in 2011 setting another world record).
OK. You win!

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  #199  
Old 12-08-2022, 01:17 AM
joeld joeld is offline
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>>Remember, the best guitar you have ever played isn't the best guitar.

Wait, what? Not true, I own it so I should know! Truly the best, and was well under $10K when I bought it... well... a few years ago. Not for status though, I never play out. Is it a $4K guitar, because that's what it cost me? Or > $10K guitar, because that's what it would sell for now?

Another thing to think about is that there are fabulous ultra-premium luthier-built guitars that can be had for reasonable prices because the luthier in question has been forgotten or overlooked. I think it's a matter of believing yourself when you find something that just seems special, even if the signature on it doesn't say Somogyi.
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  #200  
Old 12-08-2022, 07:09 AM
ewalling ewalling is offline
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I will post a couple videos----- I own a guitar (Mark Hatcher) with a current $9000 base price and several in the $3 k + range And there is a tonal difference the MH tone overall is clearer and there is more projection. But first it could be argued that the materials and body shape could account for much of that difference ??
THEN given that perception of tone is preponderantly personal perception and logistically the recording chain and Digital distribution Platform ( YouTube) streaming limitations will factor in.. As will the devices that people will be listening on.. Such that unfortunately it will likely do nothing to "prove" anything ----- Because those who think/or wish that there is no difference will still not be convinced ,,, and those that think/or wish there is,, will be

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  #201  
Old 12-08-2022, 08:37 AM
edcmat-l1 edcmat-l1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Benjo View Post
I have no 1st hand insight into this but I would guess that professional touring musicians would want to bring an easily replaceable guitar on tour with them since Guitars can get trashed in transit so I bet we don't see them playing their really nice expensive non-touring guitars at home. That was one of the things Leo Kottke talked about the advantages of doing his Taylor signature model since he could easily replace them while on tour.

I wonder if it's common for them to record with their nicer guitars and tour with their more easily replaceable less expensive guitars.
I know Jimmy Page has toured with his Number 1 and 2 "bursts" that are worth in the millions. Kirk Hammett (Metallica) tours with the "Peter Green" LP he allegedly paid over 2 mil for. I know little off topic, sorry.....
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  #202  
Old 12-08-2022, 02:59 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is online now
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Originally Posted by Adamski View Post
Hmmm I don't think that's entirely right.

I was a professional violinist. I often went to auctions and violin dealers to play what they had. Having played countless violins from £1,000 to (at the time) £820,000* I can say that in my experience price and performance are often closely intertwined.

* - I played "The Lady Blunt" Stradivarius just before the Sotheby's auction in 1985 where it sold for £820,000 setting a world record (it subsequently sold for £9,800,000 in 2011 setting another world record).

For guitars, like violins, performance can be measured by how good it sounds AND/OR how well it performs as an investment. A 1931 OM 28 in mint condition may sell for $80,000 and isn't 8x as good as a $10,000 instrument...or perhaps even as good, but it is an ironclad investment.

Either way, there is no such thing as a free lunch, generally, things are more expensive because they are better...
Would you dispute that a canon of a Stradivarius might not be the violin to blend into an orchestra? So different tools for the concertmaster. And when you get to the Sotheby auction level, it's akin to a pre war D 28 in as much as it becomes an investment. But for the average pro, both my daughters are, this was the dealer method. And in both instances it was try these in your price range and pick two, and then I'll tell you the price.

When my cellist went to Peabody, they would do a blind test every year. Twelve to fifteen instruments. They were $12,000 to $30,000, witch you know is a serious student grade price. My daughter's cello never failed to place in the top three. It was the $12,000 cello.

A blind test was conducted with some very high end violins recently too, with the Strads placing very high but not always beating out the best newer violins. So if you really want to get the instrument that sounds best to you, you really should endeavor to know as little about the instrument as possible.

And yes, with the top of the violin world, there are recognized violins that are superior, just like certain 36 D 28s. But in a room full of $3000-10,000 guitars, I'd much prefer a blindfold and my senses. And really, now days it is the trend to think that plain old D 28 won't cut it when in fact, you might like one over it's Authentic brother. And yes you can hear the difference, but you might really not like it. I had a friend who bought two 000 18s recently, with the idea of returning one. He was in a quandary because he didn't like the one that was hide glue and $2000 more. He thought his senses must be wrong. Such is the power of price over sense.
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  #203  
Old 12-08-2022, 03:15 PM
Tnfiddler Tnfiddler is offline
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Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
Would you dispute that a canon of a Stradivarius might not be the violin to blend into an orchestra? So different tools for the concertmaster. And when you get to the Sotheby auction level, it's akin to a pre war D 28 in as much as it becomes an investment. But for the average pro, both my daughters are, this was the dealer method. And in both instances it was try these in your price range and pick two, and then I'll tell you the price.

When my cellist went to Peabody, they would do a blind test every year. Twelve to fifteen instruments. They were $12,000 to $30,000, witch you know is a serious student grade price. My daughter's cello never failed to place in the top three. It was the $12,000 cello.

A blind test was conducted with some very high end violins recently too, with the Strads placing very high but not always beating out the best newer violins. So if you really want to get the instrument that sounds best to you, you really should endeavor to know as little about the instrument as possible.

And yes, with the top of the violin world, there are recognized violins that are superior, just like certain 36 D 28s. But in a room full of $3000-10,000 guitars, I'd much prefer a blindfold and my senses. And really, now days it is the trend to think that plain old D 28 won't cut it when in fact, you might like one over it's Authentic brother. And yes you can hear the difference, but you might really not like it. I had a friend who bought two 000 18s recently, with the idea of returning one. He was in a quandary because he didn't like the one that was hide glue and $2000 more. He thought his senses must be wrong. Such is the power of price over sense.
How dare you call a Strad a Canon!! Il Cannone was a Guarneri del Gesu Violin, not one of those old squeaky Strads!LOL Couldn't help myself, just had to go there!!LOL
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  #204  
Old 12-08-2022, 08:05 PM
Mycroft Mycroft is offline
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Originally Posted by edcmat-l1 View Post
I know Jimmy Page has toured with his Number 1 and 2 "bursts" that are worth in the millions. Kirk Hammett (Metallica) tours with the "Peter Green" LP he allegedly paid over 2 mil for. I know little off topic, sorry.....
I can see some ex-Special Forces type backstage with a "crew" badge. Someone asks what it is that they do for the band?

"I sleep with the guitars..."
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  #205  
Old 12-09-2022, 06:14 AM
gitarro gitarro is offline
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I can see some ex-Special Forces type backstage with a "crew" badge. Someone asks what it is that they do for the band?

"I sleep with the guitars..."
I resemble the slogan at the bottom of your post!
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  #206  
Old 12-09-2022, 06:30 AM
musicman1951 musicman1951 is offline
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Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post

And yes, with the top of the violin world, there are recognized violins that are superior, just like certain 36 D 28s. But in a room full of $3000-10,000 guitars, I'd much prefer a blindfold and my senses. And really, now days it is the trend to think that plain old D 28 won't cut it when in fact, you might like one over it's Authentic brother. And yes you can hear the difference, but you might really not like it. I had a friend who bought two 000 18s recently, with the idea of returning one. He was in a quandary because he didn't like the one that was hide glue and $2000 more. He thought his senses must be wrong. Such is the power of price over sense.
An excellent point. The more expensive instrument might be able to do things you have no interest in, and every ear likes what it likes. The only reason I don't buy a Lamborghini is because I have no interest and am never going to go around corners at 90 mph. Really. Otherwise I'd have one. Really.

I always buy the one that sounds/plays the best for me. And case in point: I had both a D-28 and a D-28 Authentic and I can easily see someone no having the vocal power to sing over that Authentic - it was incredibly powerful.
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  #207  
Old 12-09-2022, 06:39 AM
musicman1951 musicman1951 is offline
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Originally Posted by Benjo View Post
I have no 1st hand insight into this but I would guess that professional touring musicians would want to bring an easily replaceable guitar on tour with them since Guitars can get trashed in transit so I bet we don't see them playing their really nice expensive non-touring guitars at home. That was one of the things Leo Kottke talked about the advantages of doing his Taylor signature model since he could easily replace them while on tour.

I wonder if it's common for them to record with their nicer guitars and tour with their more easily replaceable less expensive guitars.
I imagine some do and some don't. I don't think I've ever seen James Taylor on stage with a cheaper guitar.
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  #208  
Old 12-09-2022, 06:57 AM
Sadie-f Sadie-f is offline
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Originally Posted by musicman1951 View Post
An excellent point. The more expensive instrument might be able to do things you have no interest in, and every ear likes what it likes. The only reason I don't buy a Lamborghini is because I have no interest and am never going to go around corners at 90 mph. Really. Otherwise I'd have one. Really.
I've owned / ridden a couple of '70s Norton's, and a Ducati, also a couple of wonderful road bicycles. I Really enjoyed carving corners, whether on a bike that is gonna drag metal at 50 degrees of lean angle, or 70. Perhaps best of all, that Duc had such good handling, it provided an impressive safety margin in edge conditions .. the Nortons were not much forgiving of mistakes, and it's for the best that those were where I'd started (Also, Harley snobs are reasonably civil when you ride a vintage bike, even if it's Brit made).
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  #209  
Old 12-09-2022, 07:02 AM
sinistral sinistral is offline
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Originally Posted by steveh View Post
John Mayer and his Traugott come to mind here.
Also, remember endorsements. Martin can pay a whole lot more than Jeff, so which one do you need to be seen on stage with?

Cheers,
Steve
For the record, from what I understand, Martin does not pay artists to play their guitars. They work with artists on signature series guitars, and some or all of the profits go to a charity selected by the artist.

An amazing career on six strings: Dick Boak
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  #210  
Old 12-10-2022, 12:30 AM
gitarro gitarro is offline
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For the record, from what I understand, Martin does not pay artists to play their guitars. They work with artists on signature series guitars, and some or all of the profits go to a charity selected by the artist.

An amazing career on six strings: Dick Boak
It us nevertheless a boost to the artist's profile among the guitarist community as well as a compliment to the artist himself to be honoured in such a way.
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