Thumb and fingerpicks, 4 months in

[TBman]

I'm using a Blue Chip JDL thumb pick and 2 ProPik Fingertone finger picks (index and middle) to play this classical tune. The fingerpicks click an awful lot. I used the De-Click tool in Rx 7 several times to get rid of some of the clicking. I don't think the metal picks are going to cut it for classical, but they are comfortable and now I think I can adapt to any finger pick after a short time. Maybe I'll try some of the plastic picks that I have again. I wish ProPik made the Fingertones with the delrin plastic that Fred Kelly uses.

I started using thumb and fingerpicks on 7/21/22, so we're 4 months into this mess.

Fernando Sor's OP35 No. 22 rough draft, with about 4-5 weeks of practice:

[rick-slo]

I hear a pick scrape on every note. I suggest chucking the picks, especially on a classical guitar.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

I hear a pick scrape on every note. I suggest chucking the picks, especially on a classical guitar.

I'm going to try plastic finger picks first, but yes, these metal picks aren't working out.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'm going to try plastic finger picks first, but yes, these metal picks aren't working out.

I have always found metal finger picks to be too noisy. Plastic picks still make noise, but considerably less than metal. The quietest playing is achieved with fingernails, but not everyone has nails that are strong enough and stiff enough. I was born with thick, strong nails, so I was lucky.

Still, finger picks do offer some advantages in allowing certain kinds of playing techniques that cannot be achieved with bare fingers or fingers with nails. And this is why I wore finger picks into my 40s until arthritis started making my index finger so crooked that I could no longer wear finger picks without significant discomfort. So in my early 40s I took the finger picks off out of necessity. I still use a thumb pick.

Best of luck to you Barry!

- Glenn

[Gitfiddlemann]

I’ll say this Barry. You don’t like to make things easy for yourself.
Sor’s goal with this one was to flush out a soulful melody from an arpeggiated structure. So, picking the pearls out of mostly lesser grains of sand. A lot of touch involved, with the premium placed on RH articulation, not just tone, which is hard enough to do with just fingers, never mind picks (metal ones a that) on just two of the three fingers you need to best play the piece.
So, I guess it all depends on what your personal goals and expectations are. If you’re happy playing these pieces like this, then that’s all that really matters. OTOH, if you want to make it sound as good as you can, and I really believe you have what it takes to do so, you’ll need to ditch the picks as Rick suggests, and focus instead on learning the proper technique that will get you there. I think that’s what a classical guitar teacher would tell you right away sitting across from you.
The truth is, you don’t need nails to make this piece sound good. Sor didn’t play with any nails. You have it within you to do it; you just have to make the commitment. You obviously like this music. Why not give it your best shot?

[Howard Emerson]

Hi Barry,
Happy thanksgiving to you and yours!

Regarding your Pro-Piks: I don't know how much time you've spent fussing with them, but I spent at least an hour with mine, and it paid big dividends!

I still use my natural nail on the index finger. From long term use of plastic tips, the nail bed actually got formed into a curve which made the nail much stronger. My normal nail beds are quite flat, which makes them weak.

The middle and ring finger have splits, so the curve didn't really help them. I have the same splits on my fretting hand nails, too, so it had nothing to do with acrylic & tips. In any case I wish that my index finger had the tone of my Pro-Piks, which make NO scraping noise at all.

The trick is to bend/twist the loop slightly so that it strikes the strings flat-on, instead of askew. I also spent a lot of time filing the leading edge of the loop so that it was not as wide as when new. I also used a needle nose pliers to bend the loop to follow the fingertip roundness, as if my fingertip could 'nest' inside the back of the loop.

The last thing was cutting a small semi-circle from the finger-loop where the two picks pass by each other. They were always clicking against one another, and simple observation exposed the solution.

Here are some pictures of them. 1st shot shows the slight twist of the loop. I've found that it's better for them to go straight on my finger with the loop twisted than rotate the whole pick to the desired contact angle:



Here's the ring finger showing the small semi-circle I cut out of the finger loop:



Here's the middle finger showing the opposing removed semi-circle:



This shot shows how thin the loop has been made next to an unaltered specimen:



Huge difference, but well worth the time invested!

I get a far fatter tone & no scratchiness with my Pro-Piks than I can with my 1 natural nail.

The plastic tips, on the other hand, were absolutely sublime when it came to fat tone, no scratch, pluck or frail, but they just don't hold up for someone who does so much wood working, gardening, etc.

I'd make one for my index finger if it weren't for the fact that you can NOT frail, or down-brush with an up-loop fingerpick! I've spent a lot of time filing the edge to cut down on the scratchiness but my ergonomics just won't allow the geometry/trajectory to change enough.

It's a work in progress, this playing guitar.

Best,
Howard Emerson

[jwing]

I agree that the metal picks are not the right tool for the job in this case.

However, metal finger picks are the right tool for many jobs. For inspiration, listen to Toby Walker, Jorma Kaukonen, Chris Smither. So don't give up your ProPiks yet. It's good to have the skills to use different tools and the judgment to know which tool is best for the job.

Some other things for you to explore:

• The scraping sound of picks on strings can be mitigated by positioning the guitar so that the strings run perpendicular to the arc that the fingers scribe. That usually means that the guitarist needs to move the peghead up toward the ceiling.
• The guitarists in my list do not use Fingertones.
• I do use Fingertones. I have discovered that two of my fingers sound less metallic when equipped with size L, but my index finger sounds better with size M.
• For any finger picks, including plastic, the tone will improve if the picking finger strike arc starts in air and draws through the string in one smooth motion. I have the bad habit of touching the strings before I pluck them. If a string is still vibrating from a previous pluck, the pick will create a buzz if lightly touched to the string. Fingertones reduce the buzzing by allowing the finger flesh to dampen the vibration before the metal contacts the string, but it doesn't always happen like that in real life. So, learn how to strike the strings without having to touch them first. Nobody touches the string with a flatpick before striking it, right?

[TBman]

Thanks guys and Howard thank you for going to the trouble to provide the detailed photos!

That clicking noise is a killer on nylon. I haven't played my steel strings in a while, I'll check them out tomorrow. I'm going to stick with the thumb pick, maybe use a Zookie that is angled, I'll experiment. I have some plastic finger picks that may not click as much.

I'll see if I can grow just a touch of nail and use finger picks on steel, then maybe natural finger nails on nylon could be possible.

Thanks again and enjoy the holiday everyone!

[jwing]

Howard,

Thanks for the tips. I'm going to try a couple of them:

• I sense that the inner edge of the loops catch the strings in an undesirable way, so I will try filing them down to eliminate that hard edge.
• I like the idea of twisting the loops instead of placing the picks askew on my fingers

[rick-slo]

It's not just the clicking sound. There are common techniques you won't be able to do with picks on and the variation in tone you can
achieve will be compromised. I did use metal picks when playing bluegrass banjo but never for guitar (especially a classical guitar).

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

It's not just the clicking sound. There are common techniques you won't be able to do with picks on and the variation in tone you can
achieve will be compromised. I did use metal picks when playing bluegrass banjo but never for guitar (especially a classical guitar).

I know, my volume control is a little compromised, single finger muting, artificial harmonics all get sidelined. Thanks again Derek!

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by TBman

I know, my volume control is a little compromised, single finger muting, artificial harmonics all get sidelined. Thanks again Derek!

and a big one add to list down strokes (typically a bit of a down strum)

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

and a big one add to list down strokes (typically a bit of a down strum)

Yes. I didn't realize how much I used that until the thumb pick went on and suddenly a soft filler strum turned into a marching band,

Back to the woodshed.......