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View Poll Results: how do you record acoustic guitar
SDC 11 52.38%
LDC 10 47.62%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16  
Old 10-29-2022, 12:27 PM
thefsb thefsb is offline
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Neither. I use a supercardioid dynamic combined with a magnetic pickup. This is because of deficient room acoustics. With an LDC the room modes are too obvious and SDC would be even worse.

The mag pickup provides a smooth bass response with no room modes and the mic provides the missing acoustic guitar sounds plus, if carefully positioned, enough room reverb so I need no effects. It's not a conventional acoustic guitar sound but I like it and I didn't need to treat my room. Check it out in my youtubes e.g. here and here.
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  #17  
Old 10-29-2022, 10:57 PM
gmel555 gmel555 is offline
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Hey, no expert here but have been doing home recording including a fair amount of acoustic guitar for "friends and family" for almost 20 years. I have a few thoughts of which one or more might help:

1) Mic Isolation: Although I've done some room treatment I still do most of my recording using a CAD Mic Shield (see pic), it isolates the mic and vocal/guitar source from some negative impact of room acoustics.
2) MICS: I've tried both LDC, SDC and two SDC. Despite trying really hard w SDC's I still usually end up using one LDC (see #3 below). In my hands anyway, I feel I do get more life/pleasant detail w/an LDC....I've moved to higher end mics now, but felt I got really good results using a Rode NT-2A and/or NT-1A 15+ years ago.
3) Mic Placement: I tried two SDC's as many prefer but wasn't happy. Given how important mic placement is with an acoustic, I probably haven't spent enough time with positioning two mics. Still one vs two means, one less mic that might be in the wrong place! and I'm just lazy. My starting point is usually with mic aimed towards where the neck meets the body, positioned ~14" away. Set the mic's angle such that you avoid getting much input from the sound hole, otherwise I usually get bass "woofiness". A tight polar pattern helps as well.
4) Preamp: This last one can be a game changer sometimes (in my little world) If you don't have a stand alone pre, they can make a world of difference vs a recorder's pre. As you describe your recordings lacking "life", a pre might really help. The first few years of my recording life I relied solely on the pre's on my BOSS BR1600 recorder. Eventually adding a stand alone (budget friendly)pre made a noticeable difference in overall sound quality. Pre's can give you a cleaner signal or pleasantly color it a bit, depending on the pre and how you use them.
Anyway my two cents, okay maybe my nickels worth of thoughts. Good luck getting what you want to hear!

PS: The AKG requires 48V phantom I recall reading somewhere that some battery run equipment w/48v spec actually provide less, especially as the battery runs down.... I've had problems -recently- with a 48v requiring mic not performing well when they're not getting the full 48.
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Last edited by gmel555; 10-29-2022 at 11:23 PM.
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  #18  
Old 10-30-2022, 12:26 AM
gmel555 gmel555 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pshih1979 View Post
....I ve tried audio interfaces and gotten worse results.....I record it to tascam then use an SD card reader to my laptop and then upload to BANDLAB DAW and add EQ, reverb, compression...on playback it just sounds dead and lifeless
I'm curious...when you tried an interface where/how in your process did you use it?
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  #19  
Old 10-30-2022, 09:27 AM
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Using one mike only?

First recording different sound from R and L channels but I suppost that could be from after recording tweaking. Not bad sound with the volume turned up a bit.

Second recording R and L channels identical (mono). Recording sounds stuffy. Record further from guitar and don't point mike(s) directly at guitar's soundhole.

Two mikes suggested and mike placement very important. Room acoustic treatment important and though I have gotten a few good sounding recordings in an
untreated room usually they are not. Avoid close to mike isolation devices for recording guitar IMO.

etc.
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  #20  
Old 11-13-2022, 05:09 PM
pshih1979 pshih1979 is offline
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Default Recording

All you have posted creative input

But I’ve used all types of gear
From beyerdynamic mc930. To apollo twin duo
To tube mics rode

Apogee duet
Clarett 4 pre
M audio 192/12

Tried different settings and rooms
The sound sample playback doesn’t change
Lifeless , boring and shrilling sound
Yes record at 44.1
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  #21  
Old 11-13-2022, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pshih1979 View Post
All you have posted creative input

But I’ve used all types of gear
From beyerdynamic mc930. To apollo twin duo
To tube mics rode

Apogee duet
Clarett 4 pre
M audio 192/12

Tried different settings and rooms
The sound sample playback doesn’t change
Lifeless , boring and shrilling sound
Yes record at 44.1
There's a lesson there: it's not the gear! People can make excellent-sounding recordings with any of that. The Apollo and the Apogee are totally excellent pieces of gear. For recording solo guitar, you're not going to make an audible step up from either of those without spending a *lot* of money. My suggestions of what to fix, as I think I' done repeatedly, are, above all room acoustics - that's 95% of the game for recording acoustic guitar. Mic placement is next. Mix comes after that. I'd strongly suggest booking some time at a decent studio. It's much cheaper than all the gear you've burned thru. Find a local studio that has some experience recording acoustic guitar. Might cost you around $50/hour. Book a few hours and record one or two tunes. Watch everything the engineer does, see what gear they're using, where the put the mics, how they mix you sound. If it still sounds bad, then there are other issues to deal with. If it sounds good, then you can try to copy what they do. A $100 or so, and you'll learn more than all the time you've invested so far.

Last edited by Doug Young; 11-13-2022 at 05:41 PM.
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  #22  
Old 11-13-2022, 10:06 PM
DupleMeter DupleMeter is offline
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Your poll doesn't account for a common setup: an SDC & an LDC together.

I like and SDC on the neck/body joint and a tube LDC at the body. I typically use a KM84 or KM184 for the SDC and a C12 or U47 for the tube LDC.

Listening to your recordings I would say that your room isn't ideal for what you're trying to do. I would get a few ATS Acoustics Stackers to create a temporary booth to help you get a more focused sound with less of the room nasties. Check the out here: https://www.atsacoustics.com/studio-stacker.html

The other thing I will mention is that I don't feel like the mic position is as good as it could be. Getting rid of the room reflections will likely help you narrow down better placement.

I would get the mics setup, and then put on some good headphones. Place each mic separately while listening in the headphones until you find that spot that sounds best. Once both mics are placed, check for issues by flipping the polarity on one of the mics. If things become bigger, more solid sounding when you invert polarity on one mic you definitely have a phase problem. Re-adjust the mics & test again. If everything sounds thinner, when you flip polarity on one mic you are good to go. That's what you would expect by flipping polarity.
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  #23  
Old 11-14-2022, 09:43 AM
RustyAxe RustyAxe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn View Post
To illustrate how much the room(s) can matter, here's something I did back at the start of Covid when I had waaaay too much time on my hands. The vocal and rhythm guitar were done live to video (aka my iPhone 5) and the phone was about 3 feet away, but it works because the room is my wife's cluttered hellhole of a workspace, and very acoustically dead. The percussion stuff was all recorded in my very acoustically-live kitchen with an SM58, and the harmony vocal, uke and single-string guitar were in the doorway between my mixing room and a fairly live hallway. Location, location, location! :-)
Kudos! That was a fun listen. My country band gets requests for this old tune every weekend. Loved your take.
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  #24  
Old 11-14-2022, 10:05 AM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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Originally Posted by RustyAxe View Post
Kudos! That was a fun listen. My country band gets requests for this old tune every weekend. Loved your take.
Thanks! I’m assuming that your band might go the Emmylou route — that song is one that works any number of ways. Chuck Berry was brilliant.
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  #25  
Old 11-14-2022, 05:23 PM
pshih1979 pshih1979 is offline
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Default Phase issues with 1 mic

How would I have phase issues with 1 sdc mic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DupleMeter View Post
Your poll doesn't account for a common setup: an SDC & an LDC together.

I like and SDC on the neck/body joint and a tube LDC at the body. I typically use a KM84 or KM184 for the SDC and a C12 or U47 for the tube LDC.

Listening to your recordings I would say that your room isn't ideal for what you're trying to do. I would get a few ATS Acoustics Stackers to create a temporary booth to help you get a more focused sound with less of the room nasties. Check the out here: https://www.atsacoustics.com/studio-stacker.html

The other thing I will mention is that I don't feel like the mic position is as good as it could be. Getting rid of the room reflections will likely help you narrow down better placement.

I would get the mics setup, and then put on some good headphones. Place each mic separately while listening in the headphones until you find that spot that sounds best. Once both mics are placed, check for issues by flipping the polarity on one of the mics. If things become bigger, more solid sounding when you invert polarity on one mic you definitely have a phase problem. Re-adjust the mics & test again. If everything sounds thinner, when you flip polarity on one mic you are good to go. That's what you would expect by flipping polarity.
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  #26  
Old 11-14-2022, 05:27 PM
cap217 cap217 is offline
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Can you post your results?

Long time studio owner/engineer/producer. I dont do it anymore but I can help if you give me what you currently have and what you want it to sound like in a post.

Also, what gear?
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  #27  
Old 11-14-2022, 05:28 PM
pshih1979 pshih1979 is offline
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Default Place that sounds best in headphones

Quote:
Originally Posted by pshih1979 View Post
How would I have phase issues with 1 sdc mic?
I feel like recording good guitar is a mirage
I’ve used bunch of headphones DT770 , m50hx
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  #28  
Old 11-14-2022, 05:43 PM
pshih1979 pshih1979 is offline
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Default I’ve seen many YouTubers record in their room

Quote:
Originally Posted by pshih1979 View Post
I feel like recording good guitar is a mirage
I’ve used bunch of headphones DT770 , m50hx
I’ve seen many people use same gear I have recording in Their own bedroom
They sounded day and night from what I recorded

Phase issues maybe an issue
Room treatment doubtful
Different mics definitely not issue
Mic preamp ughh don’t get me started on that
Art gold mp dual channel tube preamp Result crap sound
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  #29  
Old 11-14-2022, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pshih1979 View Post
How would I have phase issues with 1 sdc mic?
DupleMeter was giving you tips on what to look for when using 2 mics. With 1 mic, there will not be phase issues. But note that most instrumental fingerstlye recordings are stereo - 2 (or more) mics.
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  #30  
Old 11-14-2022, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pshih1979 View Post
IÂ’ve seen many people use same gear I have recording in Their own bedroom
They sounded day and night from what I recorded

Phase issues maybe an issue
Room treatment doubtful
Different mics definitely not issue
Mic preamp ughh donÂ’t get me started on that
Art gold mp dual channel tube preamp Result crap sound
I get that it's frustrating. You and I have discussed this (off of AGF), for what, 2 years now? In terms what what matters, performance and the instrument are #1. Room acoustics are at least as important. No one wants to believe room acoustics are an issue, and no one wants to invest in room treatment, but it makes a huge, huge, huge difference. Night and Day in many cases. Mic placement is next, very important, as long as the previous issues are under control. There's a reason professional studios invest in the room sound.

Choice of mics? Barely important, preamps? Even less important. Mics and preamps matter if what you have is so bad that you have noise or poor frequency response. But these days, for what you're doing, even a $100 mic and a $200 preamp will not be your limiting factor (tho personally, I'd skip the Art stuff). You should know this, because you've had good, professional-quality gear, and it didn't help. That's because those things were not the problem. I've sent you recordings made with very cheap gear, that I think you acknowledged sounded good to you. It's not the gear.

There are lots of of people here on AGF that make good sounding recordings. It can be done, you just have to learn how - and it's not that hard, nor is it much of a secret. I've sent you videos where I show you every single thing I do, from where the mics are placed to what I do with the tracks afterward. If you do those exact things, and don't sound at least passable, then it's likely the problem is room acoustics. There's also an aspect of "hearing your own voice" on a recording. Sometimes we just don't sound like we imagine we sound, even just with guitar, so hearing a playback is disturbing - we don't sound like we imagine we do, sitting behind the guitar. That's a whole different discussion.
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