Newbie advice wanted

[Tricky Fish]

I have recently started recording myself and uploading my videos to YouTube. I am using my iPhone with Shure MV88.

Below is my first ever attempt at recording myself:
https://youtu.be/1si3pMvt_mE

And on my second attempt I moved the phone / mic closer:
https://youtu.be/0c8trs4Q4Bs

The recording are low volume, with hiss and lots of background noise, perhaps too much room reverb.

I don't want to invest in much equipment (I want to retain a simple setup), but I want to improve the quality of my recordings. I have very little experience in recording.

Can anyone recommend simple ways to improve the quality of my recordings?

[Gordon Currie]

You still need to move the mike closer. Try 18 inches or even less.

The closer the mike, the hotter the signal - which effectively lowers the room sound in the mix.

At some point, you may get TOO close and overload the mike preamp, at which time you'll need to back off again.

However, it doesn't seem that you are anywhere near that yet.

[alohachris]

Aloha Tricky Fish,

Nice playing! Nice first cellphone recording efforts. But...treat your space & lose the cellphone.

In no other instrument is the space between the notes, mic placement & controlling the recording space more important than to the classical guitar. It's subtlties are lost in an uncontrolled space like the one you are in, using the limited cellphone technology for recording anything. The distortion & note cancellation in your recordings prove that.

Even with light, Lo-Fi recording gear & modest recording ambitions, if you're using a mic for recording, you'll need to control early room reflections & noise in your space. That's a fact! Read Victor's thread below this one: "Advice on Free Standing DIY Acoustic Panels." Make your own treatment panels, Fish. Lotsa info there & at AGF on how to treat DIY. Do an AGF 'Search' on Room Treatment for thousands of other threads.

Room Treatment will absolutely provide the BIGGEST BOOST to the quality & especially the CONSISTENCY of your recordings - more so than the even the gear (lose the phone, Fish). Room Treatment is not an option to be considered last. In fact, it should be your first move Tricky. Go DIY - it's not that involved. It doesn't have to alter your room, be expensive & is non-permanent & storable. PM me if you have questions. Treat Your Space, Tricky!

Here are Fran's two very helpful DIY Treatment video's. The first shows you how to make free-standing, portable Broadband Absorbers (no frames). The second video shows you WHY you need them. Save money with DIY:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/\

First, make 2-4 4"x2'x4' OC 703 broadband absorbers & place them in front of the mic's & behind you where you track in your space. Or make more & surround yourself with the free-standing absorbers - a kinda 'room within a room' config. for the control you need to mazimize the gear. This controls reflections & noise & separates the musical frequencies in any room. Check out those 'How To' video's & info on other 'Treatment' threads.

Note: Cellphone recording aint there yet, Tricky. I recommend that you move to a Zoom H-6 digital recorder or up to an interface & DAW computer recording for better (more open sounding), no, BEST Sonic Results. As a classical solo acoustic guy, you'll want to record in stereo - not yet available on a phone.

REFERENCE: Here's a live recording of one of the best classical guitar recordings in history, by one of the best classical guitarists ever, on an exceptional guitar, in about the best live acoustic space, playing one of the best classical (Lute for Guitar) Bach pieces in stereo (not on a cellphone) - just as a reference at the other end of the recording spectrum.

Listen to how clear & well-defined & balanced each notes rings, how close & intimate, yet how they bloom in to that exceptional space. Amazingly, the great stereo mic's used in that recording are several feet away. They go into a small field recording set-up that is not a lot of stuff, Fish. Man, if only we all could play in such a place as Alhambra de Grenada Palace. (I do have a convolution reverb external plug-in, Altiverb 6, that has sampled Alhambra & gives you that feel). Treatment & changing your technology will give you clearer, more consistent recordings more reminicent of this recording than your current set-up can, Fish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPfZVflJdp0

Good Luck, Tricky Fish!
alohachris

PS: In a noisy space? Move to the best spot - or in another room with no glass windows. Move the mic closer - around 10" off the guitar face, placed at the neck joint facing in towards the soundhole. Record at night when traffic & people slow down. Turn off the fridge & ID & fix all other household noise-makers. Get used mover's blankets from a Mover (often free if you ask), wash, hammer grommets in, & place/hang over those windows, doors, pictures & other hard, reflective surfaces - or over your fridge or other noisemakers. Place the absorbers around your tracking area & Experiment! -alohachris-

[AcousticDreams]

Really enjoyed your very even playing and the sweet tones.

I am an amateur myself, so I can not offer much advice on how to get a better recording with the set up you have.

With that being said, This is my observation:

As you said, without upgrading in equipment and acoustic treatment = You have a choice to make.

Do you like the added room sound, the slight reverb, and Frequencies added to your guitar with the mic placed further back? Or do you like the more realistic sound, the drier sound you get when mic is placed closer to the guitar. That is the decision you must make.

Either way, you will probably always get a noisy background due to the LowFi nature of the phone. But certainly less noise if the mic is placed closer. What I believe I am hearing is not background noise...but the recorders capabilities? If that noise is background noise, then that is a different story.

In some respects I like that little bit of room sound you get. However...I also hear some distortion-frequencies added that jumble the sound. And that I do not like. It is kind of a love-hate relationship with rooms. You get a little bit of reverb, openness...but then you get muckiness in some of the notes as well.

You can try facing different directions. For instance, Put the mic at the window and face the window. The Glass will give you a different tonal response. Or try facing the couch. the couch will dampen the sound a bit.

If you like the drier sound, then try surrounding yourself with the couch pillows. Turn those pillows into some type of acoustic panels. Still play around with which way you face. It is surprising the differences facing towards windows, furniture, or how far from the walls you are, will make.

Good luck and keep making those sweet tones.

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Tricky Fish,

Even with light recording gear & modest recording ambitions, if you're using a mic for recording, you'll need to control early room reflections & noise in your space. That's a fact! Read the thread below this one RE: making your own treatment panels. Lotsa info there & at AGF on how to treat DIY. Do an AGF 'Search' on Room Treatment for thousands of other threads.

First, make 2-4 4"x2'x4' OC 703 broadband absorbers & place them in front of the mic's & behind you where you track in your space. Or make more & surround yourself with the free-standing absorbers - a kinda 'room within a room' config. for the control you need to mazimize the gear. This controls reflections & noise & separates the musical frequencies in any room. 'How to' video's are below & info is in the other 'Treatment' threads.

Room Treatment will absolutely provide the BIGGEST BOOST to the quality & especially the CONSISTENCY of your recordings - more so than the even the gear. Treat Your Space, Tricky!

Here are Fran's two very helpful DIY Treatment video's. The first shows you how to make free-standing, portable Broadband Absorbers (no frames). The second video shows you WHY you need them. Save money with DIY:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/

Room Treatment is not an option to be considered last. In fact, it should be your first move Tricky. Go DIY - it's not that involved. It doesn't have to alter your room, be expensive & is non-permanent & storable. PM me if you have questions.

Good Luck!
alohachris

PS: In a noisy space? Move to the best spot - or in another room. Record at night when traffic & people slow down. Turn off the fridge & all other household noise makers. Place the absorbers around you & Experiment! -alohachris-

Alohachirs gives great advice as always. This is my next step, room treatment.

[Tricky Fish]

Thank you everyone for the outstanding advice! This is the forum at its best .

I'd particularly like to thank Alohachris for this thoughtful feedback:

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Tricky Fish,

Nice playing! Nice first cellphone recording efforts. But...treat your space & lose the cellphone.

In no other instrument is the space between the notes, mic placement & controlling the recording space more important than to the classical guitar. It's subtlties are lost in an uncontrolled space like the one you are in, using the limited cellphone technology for recording anything. The distortion & note cancellation in your recordings prove that.

Even with light, Lo-Fi recording gear & modest recording ambitions, if you're using a mic for recording, you'll need to control early room reflections & noise in your space. That's a fact! Read Victor's thread below this one: "Advice on Free Standing DIY Acoustic Panels." Make your own treatment panels, Fish. Lotsa info there & at AGF on how to treat DIY. Do an AGF 'Search' on Room Treatment for thousands of other threads.

Room Treatment will absolutely provide the BIGGEST BOOST to the quality & especially the CONSISTENCY of your recordings - more so than the even the gear (lose the phone, Fish). Room Treatment is not an option to be considered last. In fact, it should be your first move Tricky. Go DIY - it's not that involved. It doesn't have to alter your room, be expensive & is non-permanent & storable. PM me if you have questions. Treat Your Space, Tricky!

Here are Fran's two very helpful DIY Treatment video's. The first shows you how to make free-standing, portable Broadband Absorbers (no frames). The second video shows you WHY you need them. Save money with DIY:

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2009/...-on-the-cheap/

http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...adband-panels/\

First, make 2-4 4"x2'x4' OC 703 broadband absorbers & place them in front of the mic's & behind you where you track in your space. Or make more & surround yourself with the free-standing absorbers - a kinda 'room within a room' config. for the control you need to mazimize the gear. This controls reflections & noise & separates the musical frequencies in any room. Check out those 'How To' video's & info on other 'Treatment' threads.

Note: Cellphone recording aint there yet, Tricky. I recommend that you move to a Zoom H-6 digital recorder or up to an interface & DAW computer recording for better (more open sounding), no, BEST Sonic Results. As a classical solo acoustic guy, you'll want to record in stereo - not yet available on a phone.

REFERENCE: Here's a live recording of one of the best classical guitar recordings in history, by one of the best classical guitarists ever, on an exceptional guitar, in about the best live acoustic space, playing one of the best classical (Lute for Guitar) Bach pieces in stereo (not on a cellphone) - just as a reference at the other end of the recording spectrum.

Listen to how clear & well-defined & balanced each notes rings, how close & intimate, yet how they bloom in to that exceptional space. Amazingly, the great stereo mic's used in that recording are several feet away. They go into a small field recording set-up that is not a lot of stuff, Fish. Man, if only we all could play in such a place as Alhambra de Grenada Palace. (I do have a convolution reverb external plug-in, Altiverb 6, that has sampled Alhambra & gives you that feel). Treatment & changing your technology will give you clearer, more consistent recordings more reminicent of this recording than your current set-up can, Fish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPfZVflJdp0

Good Luck, Tricky Fish!
alohachris

PS: In a noisy space? Move to the best spot - or in another room with no glass windows. Move the mic closer - around 10" off the guitar face, placed at the neck joint facing in towards the soundhole. Record at night when traffic & people slow down. Turn off the fridge & ID & fix all other household noise-makers. Get used mover's blankets from a Mover (often free if you ask), wash, hammer grommets in, & place/hang over those windows, doors, pictures & other hard, reflective surfaces - or over your fridge or other noisemakers. Place the absorbers around your tracking area & Experiment! -alohachris-

I have made another recording today taking onboard some of this feedback. This has been done in the room where I expect to do most of my recording in the future:

https://youtu.be/uZh6nUjVdfs

I have moved the mic (and integrated camera) as close as possible to my guitar (probably too much light reflection off my bald head now ). I have ordered an 2m extension lightning lead for the mic so that I can move it closer without moving the camera closer.

The sound quality is perhaps a little better because of the mic proximity, but I think the room reverb is more noticeable now because it's a smaller room with more hard surfaces.

I don't see myself buying any extra gear for a while. I will need to make-do with what I have for the next year or so, but I should be able to make some DIY acoustic treatment; thanks for the links. I am reasonably handy, but will need to convince my wife and design acoustic treatment that suits the rest of the house.

I need to be realistic. I am not seeking perfection in recording, but want to optimise my situation. The room needs to be used for other purposes and is not a dedicated studio. I live under an airport's flight path and a busy road is not far away. And there are lots of birds in the background.

I think as an experiment on my next recording I will move a carpet into the room and perhaps every cushion in the house. I know this is not proper acoustic treatment, but it should be an interesting learning experience for me - just to see the difference.

Thanks again.

[Captain Jim]

You can buy a lightning connector extension cable to allow you to place your MV88 mic closer to you than the camera/phone. Adjust the gain in your Motive Video app to get the volume you want with less room affect.

The MV88+ video kit includes a mic holder and stand that isn't workable with the previous MV88 mic that connects directly to the phone, so you might have to work out a small clamp to hold the mic when used separate (but connected by the extension cable) from the phone.

[alohachris]

Aloha Tricky Fish,

Really great playing. Evocative Song - a favorite. Better Mic Placement. Much clearer & overall better recording. And a much improved, woody space (wood works better than say drywall) for recording a classical guitar, without all that glass. Bravo! And thanks for sharing your O'Carolan Dream music with us.

I didn't even mind the natural room reverberation that much. Most of the notes were pretty clear & un-distorted by comparison. Keep experimenting with mic placement once you get the extension cable, Fish. Room Treatment will give you lotsa options other than the close-miking that your forced to implement now.

Once you build a few absorbers & place them around (& even one hung above your tracking space in that room), you'll get the control & consistency you're seeking. Your playing certainly warrants the clearest recorded sound you can achieve.

If the room has a wooden floor, I wouldn't put carpet on it. Let that stand. Put it over the piano - Ha!. Yes, add softer household items & cushions to soften the sound of the small room. And check out my Mover's Blankets suggestion (put over the glass cabinets). They've always been free when I've asked. But building DIY broadband absorbers will actually tame all of the room's early reflections better than any cushions will.

BTW, you & your wife should be able to select attractive coverings for the acoustic panels that will enhance the room. My artist friends have even designed, sewed & combined multiple fabrics in patterns that really make a personal statement for their homes. I got my acoustically-unobtrusive fabrics at Walmart. I used an attractive, glossy white burlap that sounds awful, but actually has looked neutrally nice in several spaces I've rented over the last 12 years.

Here's a hint on absorber placement as I do it. I don't like hanging things on walls, especially 4" thick panels. As I mentioned, I place them around me where I track: two in a V in front of the mic(s), two behind me, two on each side, & one above me. The portable 4"x2'x4' OC703 panels are unframed, free standing & can be placed closely together (I just jam hardwire into to connect them for stability) or with space in between to add more "room" in a recording. Even just a few will help you. Lotsa options, Tricky.

As a life-long renter, I obviously cannot permanently add or adapt anything to the many dwellings in which I've lived. So I've had to adapt recording & Room Treatment to many different sizes & shapes of spaces. These absorbers provide the room control I've needed in every space. I've also had to use the rooms for other purposes (like living - Ha!). So I could easily break down & store the panels when not recording & store in a closet or under the stairs.

Over time, I made 22 of the panels (nine at first). In addition to the nine I put around my tracking area, I also added them in all corners of the room, floor to ceiling to function as bass traps. Additionally, I placed them above, behind & around my computer desk area for clearer editing, monitoring & mastering. I still used Mover's Blankets over my windows. See? Lotsa treatment, configuration & placement options, my friend. And you can still use your room for living.

It will be fun to see the solutions & recordings that your create, Tricky Fish.

But your playing is really, really good (breathe, Dog - Ha!). And keep building on that really pretty good last recording. What a difference from before. Again, thanks for sharing your music. I love the classical guitar. NSW Aussie Trevor Gore made yours?

alohachris

[alohachris]

Sorry, Duplicate Post

[Brent Hahn]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Note: Cellphone recording aint there yet, Tricky.

I'm pretty sure he's just using the phone as a capture and storage device with his USB mic. Since, in this case, the mic does the a/d conversion, the phone does just as good a job as anything will.

I guess I'm the odd man out here, but I think first two clips sound pretty good. I like the character of the room the most in the second recording, and I don't think there's too much of fit. Sounds pretty right for classical to me. I don't like the room sound in the Post 6 recording nearly as much.

[Tricky Fish]

Here's a new recording:

https://youtu.be/aIeTxDif87A

In this recording, I've kept my setup exactly as per the recording of O'Carolan's Dream, but:

1. I brought as many cushions as possible into the room and covered up as many bare surfaces as possible, mostly the floor.

2. I raised the mic gain a little.

Please let me know your thoughts.

[Tricky Fish]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Tricky Fish,

Really great playing. Evocative Song - a favorite. Better Mic Placement. Much clearer & overall better recording. And a much improved, woody space (wood works better than say drywall) for recording a classical guitar, without all that glass. Bravo! And thanks for sharing your O'Carolan Dream music with us.

I didn't even mind the natural room reverberation that much. Most of the notes were pretty clear & un-distorted by comparison. Keep experimenting with mic placement once you get the extension cable, Fish. Room Treatment will give you lotsa options other than the close-miking that your forced to implement now.

Once you build a few absorbers & place them around (& even one hung above your tracking space in that room), you'll get the control & consistency you're seeking. Your playing certainly warrants the clearest recorded sound you can achieve.

If the room has a wooden floor, I wouldn't put carpet on it. Let that stand. Put it over the piano - Ha!. Yes, add softer household items & cushions to soften the sound of the small room. And check out my Mover's Blankets suggestion (put over the glass cabinets). They've always been free when I've asked. But building DIY broadband absorbers will actually tame all of the room's early reflections better than any cushions will.

BTW, you & your wife should be able to select attractive coverings for the acoustic panels that will enhance the room. My artist friends have even designed, sewed & combined multiple fabrics in patterns that really make a personal statement for their homes. I got my acoustically-unobtrusive fabrics at Walmart. I used an attractive, glossy white burlap that sounds awful, but actually has looked neutrally nice in several spaces I've rented over the last 12 years.

Here's a hint on absorber placement as I do it. I don't like hanging things on walls, especially 4" thick panels. As I mentioned, I place them around me where I track: two in a V in front of the mic(s), two behind me, two on each side, & one above me. The portable 4"x2'x4' OC703 panels are unframed, free standing & can be placed closely together (I just jam hardwire into to connect them for stability) or with space in between to add more "room" in a recording. Even just a few will help you. Lotsa options, Tricky.

As a life-long renter, I obviously cannot permanently add or adapt anything to the many dwellings in which I've lived. So I've had to adapt recording & Room Treatment to many different sizes & shapes of spaces. These absorbers provide the room control I've needed in every space. I've also had to use the rooms for other purposes (like living - Ha!). So I could easily break down & store the panels when not recording & store in a closet or under the stairs.

Over time, I made 22 of the panels (nine at first). In addition to the nine I put around my tracking area, I also added them in all corners of the room, floor to ceiling to function as bass traps. Additionally, I placed them above, behind & around my computer desk area for clearer editing, monitoring & mastering. I still used Mover's Blankets over my windows. See? Lotsa treatment, configuration & placement options, my friend. And you can still use your room for living.

It will be fun to see the solutions & recordings that your create, Tricky Fish.

But your playing is really, really good (breathe, Dog - Ha!). And keep building on that really pretty good last recording. What a difference from before. Again, thanks for sharing your music. I love the classical guitar. NSW Aussie Trevor Gore made yours?

alohachris

Thanks again for this comprehensive feedback.

I will be looking to make some DIY absorbers in the next couple of months.

Yes my guitar is made by Trevor Gore. He is a brilliant luthier. I am currently building a guitar at his workshop under his instruction.

[Tricky Fish]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

I'm pretty sure he's just using the phone as a capture and storage device with his USB mic. Since, in this case, the mic does the a/d conversion, the phone does just as good a job as anything will.

I guess I'm the odd man out here, but I think first two clips sound pretty good. I like the character of the room the most in the second recording, and I don't think there's too much of fit. Sounds pretty right for classical to me. I don't like the room sound in the Post 6 recording nearly as much.

Its great to hear your perspective.

To be honest, I'm not sure which recording I like yet. At this stage, I am experimenting and learning what is possible.

[Brent Hahn]

I should've mentioned earlier, though, that your first two recordings seem a little bit left-heavy. That can be fixed after the fact in a DAW, but it's easier to address it before you hit the red button.

[alohachris]

Aloha,

PM'ed you Tricky Fish,

alohachris