Pickups for Carbon Fiber?

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

It seems more resonant, perhaps louder, and the sustain is longer. I don’t think it’s my imagination. I definitely, heard something different when I took it out. That’s not to say that it sounded bad with the element in, because it didn’t. Also, the action is lower. So, when I get the action back up, I expect the differences would be more noticeable.

Thanks Dave. It has been interesting reading of your journey into CF land. These Sables are keepers that will outlast us all and stay in great playing shape.

Tony

[martingitdave]

Aaron and Ken,

You guys are likely correct. I don’t hear anything earth shattering in terms of difference with the Element pickup in the carbon fiber. And, yes, it appears to work differently in carbon. This is a relatively easy switcharoo and I was mostly curious. I will try the Lyric until it disappoints me. At that point, I’ll re-install the factory pickup, or install the Anthem SL, which was recommended by McPherson for this model.

Incidentally, while other tone characteristics post Element removal are debatable, the sustain increase is not. That was very noticeable. Again, it might not necessarily be a good thing.

[martingitdave]

Update: Lyric is a no go at moderate to high volumes. The resonances go wacky. It’s too bassy a guitar for a mic without a high pass filter. I picked up an Anthem SL and installed it.

One, the guitar sounds exactly like it did from the factory. That’s a good thing. Two, the SL seems to work MUCH better than the Lyric in this guitar. And, it gives me the missing air I like for finger style stuff.

If I find this problematic in the future, I’ll go back to the original Element with custom preamp and use the ToneDexter.

The initial test with HFN was not a success either. It was too bright, but when I rolled off the treble a little it got dull sounding. Couldn’t find a happy medium.

After installing the Anthem SL, I pulled the Authentic D-28 out of the case to A/B them for acoustic volume. I’d be hard pressed to hear a difference in terms of volume and power between the two. So, regardless of the SL’s impact on acoustic tone in the McPherson carbon, it doesn’t hinder the guitar enough to make it softer than the loudest wooden guitar I’ve ever owned. I guess that makes it good enough for me.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Update: Lyric is a no go at moderate to high volumes. The resonances go wacky. It’s too bassy a guitar for a mic without a high pass filter. I picked up an Anthem SL and installed it.

One, the guitar sounds exactly like it did from the factory. That’s a good thing. Two, the SL seems to work MUCH better than the Lyric in this guitar. And, it gives me the missing air I like for finger style stuff.

If I find this problematic in the future, I’ll go back to the original Element with custom preamp and use the ToneDexter.

The initial test with HFN was not a success either. It was too bright, but when I rolled off the treble a little it got dull sounding. Couldn’t find a happy medium.

After installing the Anthem SL, I pulled the Authentic D-28 out of the case to A/B them for acoustic volume. I’d be hard pressed to hear a difference in terms of volume and power between the two. So, regardless of the SL’s impact on acoustic tone in the McPherson carbon, it doesn’t hinder the guitar enough to make it softer than the loudest wooden guitar I’ve ever owned. I guess that makes it good enough for me.

Also, as you're finding out, your Sable is similar to RainSong, Composite Acoustics, and Emerald carbon guitars in that you have to be more careful about it feeding back than a wooden guitar under similar playing conditions. Ya Gotta Be Careful Where You Point That Thing! A carbon guitar is just so alive in and reactive to its surroundings that it's almost like it's possessed!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Update: Lyric is a no go at moderate to high volumes. The resonances go wacky. It’s too bassy a guitar for a mic without a high pass filter. I picked up an Anthem SL and installed it.

One, the guitar sounds exactly like it did from the factory. That’s a good thing. Two, the SL seems to work MUCH better than the Lyric in this guitar. And, it gives me the missing air I like for finger style stuff.

If I find this problematic in the future, I’ll go back to the original Element with custom preamp and use the ToneDexter.

The initial test with HFN was not a success either. It was too bright, but when I rolled off the treble a little it got dull sounding. Couldn’t find a happy medium.

After installing the Anthem SL, I pulled the Authentic D-28 out of the case to A/B them for acoustic volume. I’d be hard pressed to hear a difference in terms of volume and power between the two. So, regardless of the SL’s impact on acoustic tone in the McPherson carbon, it doesn’t hinder the guitar enough to make it softer than the loudest wooden guitar I’ve ever owned. I guess that makes it good enough for me.

Thanks for the update. I am going to stick with the original Element in my Sable and Touring. These seem to work well enough for me, but then I am not nearly as particular about these things as some are.

My Cargos have K & K pickups in them and I had to go through a lot of experimentation to get the EQ'ing right. I modified a Boss GE-7, the EHX Knockout pedal, and a K & K preamp to get the EQ'ing that I needed. Then, several years later, along came the Empress Para-EQ pedal and that does it all very well for those Cargos.

At the time I purchased my Cargos, around 2007 when CA Guitars was still in business and the Cargos sold for under $800, the version with the electronics sounded terribly quacky to me, so I opted for the non-electrified version and went with the K & K.

I really appreciate that McPherson not only went with a fairly decent pickup, but also apparently worked with L.R. Baggs to get the preamp EQ'ed specifically for the guitars they went into. That saved me a lot of trouble.

My eyes are not good enough anymore to be doing all that redesigning and rebuilding of pedals and preamps, so I gave away my scope and associated tools and decided to just buy stuff that I didn't feel the need to modify. I did keep my DVM since it has so many other uses though.

Tony

[Lucky Ambrose]

I had a K&k in my Cargo guitar and it sounded like crap. I eventually put in a MISI with the LR Baggs Element and it sounds like heaven. And not internal battery.
Also put a MiSi in a BlackBird And it sounded great as well.
I have a Barbera in my wood Yamamoto, it’s an amazing pickup. I would think it would sound great in a carbon fiber.
I had a full Anthem installed in another guitar and it changed the natural tone a lot. It’s rather combersome. I regret doing it and someday will replace it with a Barbera.
I sure would NOT recommend a K&K in a carbon fiber guitar. Really sounds like crap.

[JungWoo]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Update: Lyric is a no go at moderate to high volumes. The resonances go wacky. It’s too bassy a guitar for a mic without a high pass filter. I picked up an Anthem SL and installed it.

One, the guitar sounds exactly like it did from the factory. That’s a good thing. Two, the SL seems to work MUCH better than the Lyric in this guitar. And, it gives me the missing air I like for finger style stuff.

If I find this problematic in the future, I’ll go back to the original Element with custom preamp and use the ToneDexter.

The initial test with HFN was not a success either. It was too bright, but when I rolled off the treble a little it got dull sounding. Couldn’t find a happy medium.

After installing the Anthem SL, I pulled the Authentic D-28 out of the case to A/B them for acoustic volume. I’d be hard pressed to hear a difference in terms of volume and power between the two. So, regardless of the SL’s impact on acoustic tone in the McPherson carbon, it doesn’t hinder the guitar enough to make it softer than the loudest wooden guitar I’ve ever owned. I guess that makes it good enough for me.

I'm glad I saw your post! I was considering ditching the Anthem SL in my Sable for a HFN.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by JungWoo

I'm glad I saw your post! I was considering ditching the Anthem SL in my Sable for a HFN.

I already owned the HFN system so it was a low cost test. Those units are highly placement sensitive. So, there’s a possibility that a change of placement or adhesive would end with better results.

I can’t say that the element pickup makes a big difference to the sound of the Sable. It makes some difference, but perhaps not enough to loose the convenience of plug and play.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

I already owned the HFN system so it was a low cost test. Those units are highly placement sensitive. So, there’s a possibility that a change of placement or adhesive would end with better results.

I can’t say that the element pickup makes a big difference to the sound of the Sable. It makes some difference, but perhaps not enough to loose the convenience of plug and play.

As a follow up to this thread, I ended up installing the active Schatten HFN VT in the sable with a new factory saddle. It’s been about 6 weeks and I really prefer it. It’s good enough that I am recording and mixing the dry signal in when I do online events. The Anthem SL also sounds good, but I just like the sound of this better for some reason.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

As a follow up to this thread, I ended up installing the active Schatten HFN VT in the sable with a new factory saddle. It’s been about 6 weeks and I really prefer it. It’s good enough that I am recording and mixing the dry signal in when I do online events. The Anthem SL also sounds good, but I just like the sound of this better for some reason.

Hi Dave,

and if you are not happy you still have your Tonedexter!

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Hi Dave,



and if you are not happy you still have your Tonedexter!

Exactly! I’ve been enjoying the HFN in this guitar so much I haven’t fired up the Tonedexter for it. As Doug Young repeatedly says, pickups are sometimes happier in certain guitars. So, I guess when you find a good match, don’t mess with it too much.

[GuitarLuva]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Exactly! I’ve been enjoying the HFN in this guitar so much I haven’t fired up the Tonedexter for it. As Doug Young repeatedly says, pickups are sometimes happier in certain guitars. So, I guess when you find a good match, don’t mess with it too much.

I certainly agree, the HFN sounds great in the Sable. This is my first install where I preferred the tape over the putty. Seems the putty is a better medium for larger guitars like dreads and the tape for smaller bodied guitars.

[JungWoo]

Do you have any clips of the Sable and HFN?

My Anthem SL makes too much noise with the slightest movement. The rough backing of the Sable makes a lot of noise when rubbed against clothing.

If I roll down the mic, then I lose a lot of the high end detail.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by JungWoo

Do you have any clips of the Sable and HFN?

My Anthem SL makes too much noise with the slightest movement. The rough backing of the Sable makes a lot of noise when rubbed against clothing.

If I roll down the mic, then I lose a lot of the high end detail.

The HFN will pick that up as well. Try lowering the mic adjustment pot inside the SL.