PLEASE HELP! Taylor acoustic guitar recording issue !

[Connoj24]

So whenever I record my Taylor 517e builders edition through a condenser microphone there’s a specific frequency around 595hz that just over powers the guitar and the recording itself ,I’ve tried different strings and it’s set up well. I just can’t seem to pin point the problem here’s a link to what I mean


https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/xMq8kj2ETuQq4URH7

[MikeBmusic]

That frequency is a little above the high D (10th fret on the high E string). I don't hear it in the recording (with my usual computer speakers). Are you seeing this spike in a frequency analysis? If not, it may be your listening system - monitors or room.

[Connoj24]

Hi yes I am seeing the spike on the channel eq , It shocks me that you can’t hear it , I’m pretty sure it does this in every room but I’d be foolish not to check - even in my headphones I’m hearing the same

[Bob Womack]

Hi. I put your clip up on the big monitors at the studio. I can hear the peak at ~600hz. I notched it out by about -3.6db with an EQ set with a Q of .8 and it sounded better. Interestingly, I also found peaks at ~200hz and ~1200hz. You know what this is starting to sound like, don't you? It is an harmonic series. Now, that upper-mid push is typical of Taylors, but the fact that we are looking three frequencies that are near multiples could indicate a head shell resonance in your mic as well. I actually find the ~1100 frequency a little more bothersome than the ~600hz one. I drew in the Q to 1.85 there and notched it by -5.8db. I pulled down the ~200hz boom by -3db and a Q of .8.

But you know, none of these things are fatal. This is exactly why EQs were created. I can use really nice $3000 or even $17000 LDC Neumann mic and know that it is going to have head shell resonances. Martins are boomy, Taylors have the upper-mid push. It's the result of living in a world of compromises and using tools that are, themselves, compromises.

Life is good.

Bob

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Hi. I put your clip up on the big monitors at the studio. I can hear the peak at ~600hz. I notched it out by about -3.6db with an EQ set with a Q of .8 and it sounded better. Interestingly, I also found peaks at ~200hz and ~1200hz. You know what this is starting to sound like, don't you? It is an harmonic series. Now, that upper-mid push is typical of Taylors, but the fact that we are looking three frequencies that are near multiples could indicate a head shell resonance in your mic as well. I actually find the ~1100 frequency a little more bothersome than the ~600hz one. I drew in the Q to 1.85 there and notched it by -5.8db. I pulled down the ~200hz boom by -3db and a Q of .8.

But you know, none of these things are fatal. This is exactly why EQs were created. I can use really nice $3000 or even $17000 LDC Neumann mic and know that it is going to have head shell resonances. Martins are boomy, Taylors have the upper-mid push. It's the result of living in a world of compromises and using tools that are, themselves, compromises.

Life is good.

Bob

Hi Bob
So how would you 'fix' or 'correct' the things you discovered when you put the clip through it's paces?

[keith.rogers]

Are you recording in a treated space? Resonance could be in the guitar (strings choice, even), room, mic choice or placement, stand, technique, etc.

But, I don't think it's horrible - depends on what you're going to do with the guitar part. As pointed out, a little EQ, maybe compression (or dynamic EQ) can tame things like that.

p.s. The important thing is that you apply these things in context. You don't "fix" a guitar part that's going to be in a mix by listening to it solo. And you definitely don't do it by looking at its spectrum in the DAW. (IMHO)

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Connoj24

So whenever I record my Taylor 517e builders edition through a condenser microphone there’s a specific frequency around 595hz that just over powers the guitar and the recording itself ,I’ve tried different strings and it’s set up well. I just can’t seem to pin point the problem here’s a link to what I mean


https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/xMq8kj2ETuQq4URH7

Hi Connoj24

I cannot reproduce what you're describing on my cheap, nor my mid-line 'pretty-nice' nor high end monitoring speakers, nor in my headphones.

Nothing sticking out, or over powering is showing up for me (not the frequency you specify, nor others). I'm just using ears, no analyzing tools.

Are you monitoring the recordings in the same space you record them in? And are you hearing it in the recordings? If so, how are you monitoring the clip?

And out of curiosity, which mic(s) are you recording with?

[Connoj24]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Hi. I put your clip up on the big monitors at the studio. I can hear the peak at ~600hz. I notched it out by about -3.6db with an EQ set with a Q of .8 and it sounded better. Interestingly, I also found peaks at ~200hz and ~1200hz. You know what this is starting to sound like, don't you? It is an harmonic series. Now, that upper-mid push is typical of Taylors, but the fact that we are looking three frequencies that are near multiples could indicate a head shell resonance in your mic as well. I actually find the ~1100 frequency a little more bothersome than the ~600hz one. I drew in the Q to 1.85 there and notched it by -5.8db. I pulled down the ~200hz boom by -3db and a Q of .8.

But you know, none of these things are fatal. This is exactly why EQs were created. I can use really nice $3000 or even $17000 LDC Neumann mic and know that it is going to have head shell resonances. Martins are boomy, Taylors have the upper-mid push. It's the result of living in a world of compromises and using tools that are, themselves, compromises.

Life is good.

Bob

What a fantastic response it makes sense and I can understand it ! So as for the mic I’ve used mutiple mics and it sound very similar in terms of the resonance of the guitar. So from what you have described is it just a case of get on with it and use eq to filter it out ?

[Connoj24]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

Are you recording in a treated space? Resonance could be in the guitar (strings choice, even), room, mic choice or placement, stand, technique, etc.

But, I don't think it's horrible - depends on what you're going to do with the guitar part. As pointed out, a little EQ, maybe compression (or dynamic EQ) can tame things like that.

p.s. The important thing is that you apply these things in context. You don't "fix" a guitar part that's going to be in a mix by listening to it solo. And you definitely don't do it by looking at its spectrum in the DAW. (IMHO)

Thanks for your response Keith , it’s not treated very well as it’s in my bedroom, however I have tried different rooms and it’s no use , even though the other rooms aren’t treated either and I have tried different mics and surfaces , I think it’s coming from the guitar itself and the mics obviously picking it up

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Bob
So how would you 'fix' or 'correct' the things you discovered when you put the clip through it's paces?

Hi, Larry! I'd spend a little more time on analysis and find the actual frequencies that are popping out but the basis of the frequency issue is resonance. There are other issues in the recording, including near reflections, that might like to deal with before recording.

I live in a very pragmatic setting. For part of my work I get material that others have recorded and I am asked to make it work. The cat is out of the bag and the milk is spilled at that point and I have to use the tools I have to make the recording sound reasonable. For instance, I can sometimes apply an acoustic space over a recording done in a defective space and redeem the recording.

Bob

[Brent Hahn]

At the risk of being the pollutant in the punchbowl, what I'm hearing is a lot simpler... a couple of opposing and uncluttered walls -- maybe 10-11 feet or so apart? It sounds to me like you need to deal with that, with either official "room treatment" or just plain old clutter. As in, get some big bookshelves and fill them up with stuff, to break up those standing waves that are allowing that low mid junk to linger and the harmonics of it to poke out.

The key word in the previous is "linger." With standing waves, those frequencies are still around after the other frequencies have evenly decayed. You can hear this happening pretty clearly in the recording.

With room issues like this, you'll never hear them if you're playing back on speakers in the same room. The logic behind this should be pretty obvious.

[jpmist]

I took a run at it with a GarageBand EQ and found two spikes at 1180 and 560 (which works out to a D note). You're playing G and D chords so it's no wonder you hear that string a lot especially using a pick. If you're playing your G chord with your ring finger on the 3rd fret of the B string you might reconsider that.

Have you tried moving your mic over a few inches to the bass string side of the guitar? You could also try a capo which will dampen that B string a bit.

The link below is a video from the Streamable website site will give you an idea of how it sounds with the 560 & 1180 frequencies pulled down a bit.

Hope this helps!

https://streamable.com/ccw5zc

[DupleMeter]

Originally Posted by Connoj24

So whenever I record my Taylor 517e builders edition through a condenser microphone there’s a specific frequency around 595hz that just over powers the guitar and the recording itself ,I’ve tried different strings and it’s set up well. I just can’t seem to pin point the problem here’s a link to what I mean


https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/xMq8kj2ETuQq4URH7

I just pulled this up on the big monitors in the studio and, to my ears, it's clearly the room that is the problem.

Sure, you can carve out notches all day long with a good surgical EQ, but I'd bet you'd be better off addressing the source of the problem. I don't know what your situation is, but if you can find a space you can acoustically tune, you'd be much better off. Of course, sometimes that's not an option for your living situation.

[Connoj24]

Originally Posted by jpmist

I took a run at it with a GarageBand EQ and found two spikes at 1180 and 560 (which works out to a D note). You're playing G and D chords so it's no wonder you hear that string a lot especially using a pick. If you're playing your G chord with your ring finger on the 3rd fret of the B string you might reconsider that.

Have you tried moving your mic over a few inches to the bass string side of the guitar? You could also try a capo which will dampen that B string a bit.

The link below is a video from the Streamable website site will give you an idea of how it sounds with the 560 & 1180 frequencies pulled down a bit.

Hope this helps!

https://streamable.com/ccw5zc

Yeah you helped massively and thanks for showing me the eq , I know what to tweak now I have tried different mic placements and it don’t do much in terms of it those peaks

[Connoj24]

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

I just pulled this up on the big monitors in the studio and, to my ears, it's clearly the room that is the problem.

Sure, you can carve out notches all day long with a good surgical EQ, but I'd bet you'd be better off addressing the source of the problem. I don't know what your situation is, but if you can find a space you can acoustically tune, you'd be much better off. Of course, sometimes that's not an option for your living situation.

Do you know much about room treatment ? If so I can send you a picture of my room space and maybe you could give some recommendations?