ATS acoustic panels

[TBman]

I bought a pair of the ATS panels pointed out to me by Rick-Slo (Thanks!). I think I'm getting a clearer recording:

Here's a raw unedited demo with my two AT 2035 mics:



And here's another with two small condenser mics, a Rode NT-5 and an AKG Perception 150:


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[Brent Hahn]

Good for you. Hard to tell whether it sounds better, though, without a compared-to-what.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

Good for you. Hard to tell whether it sounds better, though, without a compared-to-what.

Thanks Brent. I edited the original post and did two short demos. Doing an exact before and after is more trouble than its worth.

[TBman]

Yes, no?

Do I have bad breath?

[Doug Young]

I hear less room sound than on your usual recordings, but something else seems to be going on. Seems a bit compressed, rather harsh? I don't know, I think I've heard more pleasant sounds from you in the past. I actually wouldn't expect 2 panels to do very much, tho I know Fran Guidry did a 2-panel demo some time back. Depending on how you set them up, there's always a chance of getting short reflections from having panels too close, which could lead to a harsh sound.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I hear less room sound than on your usual recordings, but something else seems to be going on. Seems a bit compressed, rather harsh? I don't know, I think I've heard more pleasant sounds from you in the past. I actually wouldn't expect 2 panels to do very much, tho I know Fran Guidry did a 2-panel demo some time back. Depending on how you set them up, there's always a chance of getting short reflections from having panels too close, which could lead to a harsh sound.

I had noticed that as well. I'm going to tinker around with things, thanks.

[MikeBmusic]

Do you have the panels set up in a 'V' in front of you - on the other side of the mic(s)?
This will help a lot in cutting out the loudest of the soundwaves emanating from the front of the guitar, but there will still be reflections from other points in the room - the size of your room, where you are seated in the room, and what else is in the room all have a bearing.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

Do you have the panels set up in a 'V' in front of you - on the other side of the mic(s)?
This will help a lot in cutting out the loudest of the soundwaves emanating from the front of the guitar, but there will still be reflections from other points in the room - the size of your room, where you are seated in the room, and what else is in the room all have a bearing.

Yes, they are in V in front of me, thanks.

[runamuck]

Originally Posted by TBman

Yes, they are in V in front of me, thanks.

Try them in back of you, their faces toward the mic. See if that's an improvement.

[alohachris]

Aloha Barry,

I'm with Doug on the sound quality of your new recordings here w/ your new ATS treatment panels onboard. There seems to be a disconnect between trebles & bass notes in balance. The trebles sound a bit compressed. Turning the volume up a bit, it almost sounds to me like proximity effect is hitting the usual lower mid freq's harder than normal, creating unpleasant hint of distortion. I hear the room in play more than it needs to. Try other placements with the two Gobo's (one in front, one behind?) or try move the mic's out a tad further than your customary 10". These songs are intimate & sweet. And so must the sound of your guitar be. This isn't "sweet" yet.

You know, you don't really have to play around with more experimentation, my friend. Save that for mic placement - after FULL treatment. Now that you have finally decided to Purchase rather than Make ADEQUATE ROOM TREATMENT for your small, recording space - GO ALL IN WITH IT!

Two panels alone, even placed in the usual V behind your spaced-pair mic's or behind you simply cannot FULLY control most of the early reflections of such a small room without showing up audibly in your recordings or "attacking" some frequencies like here, no matter where you place them.

Many times, I've suggested you do as I did, make or BUY free-standing, portable 4"x2'x4' broadband absorbers, placed them in front in a V, behind in a V, to the sides & even one hanging above your tracking space using a wooden floor, to track from the sweetspot in the room. Have you metered it yet? Or used EQ Room Wizard? It takes about nine such panels to fully treat your tracking space completely as I did at first. They must be 4" thick to work.

It's basically a free-standing, impermanent "Room Within A Room" approach to adequately treating your tracking space. You place the panels as closely or as far apart as required by your music - for more or less room in your recording. Very flexible, no rules except the 4" thickness.

I made my panels over 17 years ago, Barry, & they have worked in every room I've applied them to - ALL KINDS OF SHAPES, SURFACES & SIZES. And they were easy to store when not in use. Now, I loan them out to other acoustic musicians. Most don't know what they are doing in recording, BUT THESE NOW-OLD, SELF-MADE, OC 703 ABSORBERS ALWAYS WORK TO IMPROVE THEIR RECORDINGS! Sometimes, they help newbie player/home recordists sound GREAT!

So the solutions as I see it here, remain the same - First, meter your space. Then just go out & buy enough ATS gobos to ADEQUATELY treat & create a nice tracking space for your music. AND Secondly,..Ditch those budget AT 2035 SDC's ASAP - They are terrible! (I've been consistent on that for years now - you deserve much better, Barry. Get some KM 184's or M300's. Isn't it time? Q: Are you still using headphones as near-field monitors?

FULLY COMMIT TO ROOM TREATMENT BARRY! You'll never look back. Buy More Panels! We all want you to sound as good as you are capable of sounding, w/o room issues spoiling your day! 'Act of God' acoustic sound, coming from Northern New Jersey! That's what I wanna hear!

Good Luck! Thanks again for sharing your music, recordings & this process, Barry. Criticism is always given in good faith. I know you know that's the case around here with these guys. Things aren't as bad as I've written. You play very well! So, Maximize the sound of your acoustic music (& new mic's, HA!) NOW - so you can live wholly in the creativity of the performance. You can't be worrying about the gear or your space while tracking your recordings or your performances will suffer (Don't I know!). FULLY TREAT THE MUTHA, BAH! HA! - MORE GOBO's FOR BARRY!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

[TBman]

Originally Posted by alohachris

Aloha Barry,

I'm with Doug on the sound quality of your new recordings here w/ your new ATS treatment panels onboard. There seems to be a disconnect between trebles & bass notes in balance. The trebles sound a bit compressed. Turning the volume up a bit, it almost sounds to me like proximity effect is hitting the usual lower mid freq's harder than normal, creating unpleasant hint of distortion. I hear the room in play more than it needs to. Try other placements with the two Gobo's (one in front, one behind?) or try move the mic's out a tad further than your customary 10". These songs are intimate & sweet. And so must the sound of your guitar be. This isn't "sweet" yet.

You know, you don't really have to play around with more experimentation, my friend. Save that for mic placement - after FULL treatment. Now that you have finally decided to Purchase rather than Make ADEQUATE ROOM TREATMENT for your small, recording space - GO ALL IN WITH IT!

Two panels alone, even placed in the usual V behind your spaced-pair mic's or behind you simply cannot FULLY control most of the early reflections of such a small room without showing up audibly in your recordings or "attacking" some frequencies like here, no matter where you place them.

Many times, I've suggested you do as I did, make or BUY free-standing, portable 4"x2'x4' broadband absorbers, placed them in front in a V, behind in a V, to the sides & even one hanging above your tracking space using a wooden floor, to track from the sweetspot in the room. Have you metered it yet? Or used EQ Room Wizard? It takes about nine such panels to fully treat your tracking space completely as I did at first. They must be 4" thick to work.

It's basically a free-standing, impermanent "Room Within A Room" approach to adequately treating your tracking space. You place the panels as closely or as far apart as required by your music - for more or less room in your recording. Very flexible, no rules except the 4" thickness.

I made my panels over 17 years ago, Barry, & they have worked in every room I've applied them to - ALL KINDS OF SHAPES, SURFACES & SIZES. And they were easy to store when not in use. Now, I loan them out to other acoustic musicians. Most don't know what they are doing in recording, BUT THESE NOW-OLD, SELF-MADE, OC 703 ABSORBERS ALWAYS WORK TO IMPROVE THEIR RECORDINGS! Sometimes, they help newbie player/home recordists sound GREAT!

So the solutions as I see it here, remain the same - First, meter your space. Then just go out & buy enough ATS gobos to ADEQUATELY treat & create a nice tracking space for your music. AND Secondly,..Ditch those budget AT 2035 SDC's ASAP - They are terrible! (I've been consistent on that for years now - you deserve much better, Barry. Get some KM 184's or M300's. Isn't it time? Q: Are you still using headphones as near-field monitors?

FULLY COMMIT TO ROOM TREATMENT BARRY! You'll never look back. Buy More Panels! We all want you to sound as good as you are capable of sounding, w/o room issues spoiling your day! 'Act of God' acoustic sound, coming from Northern New Jersey! That's what I wanna hear!

Good Luck! Thanks again for sharing your music, recordings & this process, Barry. Criticism is always given in good faith. I know you know that's the case around here with these guys. Things aren't as bad as I've written. You play very well! So, Maximize the sound of your acoustic music (& new mic's, HA!) NOW - so you can live wholly in the creativity of the performance. You can't be worrying about the gear or your space while tracking your recordings or your performances will suffer (Don't I know!). FULLY TREAT THE MUTHA, BAH! HA! - MORE GOBO's FOR BARRY!

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

This is the best I'm going to get Chris....

Recording demo:


I don't have the space or the approved budget to do a room within a room. I bought 2 and have them set up in a V. Thanks.


Items below this text have nothing to do with my post.

[johnnydobbers]

2 panels will only help so much.....i bit the bullet and purchased 9 panels that were 4" thick...They store easily, and I must say, they made the most improvement to my sound. I would never recommend someone upgrade their microphone over getting their room treated. I am a big convert in treating ones room.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by johnnydobbers

2 panels will only help so much.....i bit the bullet and purchased 9 panels that were 4" thick...They store easily, and I must say, they made the most improvement to my sound. I would never recommend someone upgrade their microphone over getting their room treated. I am a big convert in treating ones room.

Yeah, 2 panels seems unlikely to do very much, tho of course it depends on the room, how big it is, how much help it needs, etc. I'd have to calculate, but off the top of my head, I'd say I have the equivalent of about 20 panels in my 15x13-ish space.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Yeah, 2 panels seems unlikely to do very much, tho of course it depends on the room, how big it is, how much help it needs, etc. I'd have to calculate, but off the top of my head, I'd say I have the equivalent of about 20 panels in my 15x13-ish space.

Ditto number of panels (on walls and ceiling) in my room of the same size. Probably would have a few more but one wall is mostly closet mirrors and another wall has wide French doors.

[rick-slo]

duplicate post