Looking for opinions on the LR Baggs Lyric

[aschroeder]

I'm adding a pickup to a Lowden F50. I have a Schatten HFN (passive) in another guitar that sounds great. I planned on installing the same pickup in this guitar. But I am curious to hear opinions from people that are using the Baggs Lyric.

I've read that the Lyric can cause feedback at loud volumes. But I only play solo gigs with a Bose L1 PA system, so feedback shouldn't be a major problem for me. I also have a parametric EQ that could dial out any feedback issues.

My Eastman E40om has the Schatten HFN that I run through a NUX Optima Air to add an Impulse Response. It sounds amazing through my Bose PA, but I'm always curious about pickups I haven't tried before.

I'll likely go with the Schatten HFN, but I'd appreciate any opinions on the Baggs Lyric.

[SpruceTop]

Given a Schatten HFN or a Lyric, I'd go with the Schatten HFN if you can EQ it to a good amplified tone. Frankly, for simplicity and good results, I'd install neither and go for a Dazzo system if a passive system may be your choice. I tried the Lyric in two large guitars, a 2013 Taylor 528 First Edition Grand Orchestra and a 2013 Martin D-18. Sadly, although I tweaked and tweaked its Presence Control and routed it through an LR Baggs Venue Preamp/DI, I couldn't get it to sound full with any bass clout. Maybe, the Lyric is better suited for generating good amplified tone when installed in smaller guitars? I've tried the Schatten HFN Artist Plus II in a few dreadnoughts and I found it needs outboard EQ to sound balanced across the strings and especially to bring out the bass on the 6th string.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by aschroeder

I'm adding a pickup to a Lowden F50. I have a Schatten HFN (passive) in another guitar that sounds great. I planned on installing the same pickup in this guitar. But I am curious to hear opinions from people that are using the Baggs Lyric.

I've read that the Lyric can cause feedback at loud volumes. But I only play solo gigs with a Bose L1 PA system, so feedback shouldn't be a major problem for me. I also have a parametric EQ that could dial out any feedback issues.

Hi aschroder…
I have a friend with a country-folk band. The bassist is electric, and occasionally he adds a jazz guitarist through his amp. The mandolin and fiddle are amplified with pickups.

He has a great 2005 Taylor just-smaller-than-dreadnaught, and he's a full-time strummer who writes and sings country/folk gigs. Amplified sound was his nemesis for years.

He tried the built in Taylor pickup, a K&K, a hybrid rig, and finally installed a Lyric.

My gigging partner and I opened for them the other night, and I got to bring my wife and sit in the audience while they played…his guitar was great sounding!

It has has never sounded so good! He's a pretty crunchy strummer who drops his hand on the bridge frequently (which has disqualified most of his former pickup rigs).

At loud to more-than-loud levels that night there was never a hint of feedback. The tone was natural, and acoustic-centrid.

I could believe that it be easy to dial back the mids on his Aura preamp's parametric midrange if he were to really needed another bunch-o-db.

On top of it all, he runs the 15" - 3 way stage monitors 3-4 feet in front of him…hotter than the house, with no hint of feedback.

After some 'negative' and 'suspicious' talk about the Lyric over the years here on the forum, I was not expecting it to sound/work so well on a rather average generic sound system (Behringer 16 channel board with 1800W power into a pair of Yamaha 12" two way cabinets).

Sounded great, and they don't even use a sound man - they just set-it-up and play.

[aschroeder]

SpruceTop - I'm very happy with the Schatten pickup. I boost the lows and cut some of the very highest frequencies to reduce unwanted string noise, etc. That alone makes it the best sounding pickup I've ever used. But then I dial in some subtle IR and it sounds even better. My only complaint is the Schatten has a bit too much high end at times. It's easy to boost the lows to sound great, but it's not as easy to reduce the high end. I've listened to countless videos and sound clips of other pickups including the Dazzo. To me the Dazzo sounds a bit different than the Schatten, but not necessarily better to my ears. If I heard it in person I might think differently, but for over twice the cost and a more difficult install the Schatten seemed like a better option.

ljguitar - Thank you for the first-hand review on the pickup. I'm having a hard time finding many reviews of it online. Usually people install the full Anthem pickup. I'm tempted to try the Lyric out since it's easy to remove if I don't like it. One of the big negatives for me is I prefer to not a battery in my guitar like with my passive the Schatten pickup.

[Monsum]

The Lyric has been the most natural pickup I’ve tried (others were Baggs Anthem, KK pure mini, Schatten HFN, Baggs M1 - all of them with preamps like Fishman Aura, Tonedexter etc.). It’s especially great for strumming. Feedback rejection is good too.
Out of three Lyric pickups in my different guitars, one wasn’t that impressive. It was a Martin D28 and the pickup was installed by a professional luthier. It had too much mid range which couldn’t be dealt with EQ. Now I’m thinking that changing the Lyric mic placement might’ve sorted the issue.

[Lapo]

If your looking for the most natural sound with feedback resistance somewhere in the ballpark of the Lyric, I'd recomend the Closeup system from YH Audio. It sounds much better and honestly sounds to me like a nice sounding condenser mic. I don't know exactly how the feedback resistance compares, but it is quite resistant. I haven't played live in years so can't get into more detail in that regard.

What they don't show in the pictures for some reason is that it can purchased as an internally installed version. It is attached to the internal portion of a YH endpin jack. They say it sounds the same in either location. The version in the pictures is the one I have, and has the advantage of being able to be switched over to another instrument in seconds. It just slips in and out really easily, and you flick a switch on the preamp box to move to another position.

https://www.yourheaven.net/product/c...system-guitar/

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by aschroeder

SpruceTop - I'm very happy with the Schatten pickup. I boost the lows and cut some of the very highest frequencies to reduce unwanted string noise, etc. That alone makes it the best sounding pickup I've ever used. But then I dial in some subtle IR and it sounds even better. My only complaint is the Schatten has a bit too much high end at times. It's easy to boost the lows to sound great, but it's not as easy to reduce the high end. I've listened to countless videos and sound clips of other pickups including the Dazzo. To me the Dazzo sounds a bit different than the Schatten, but not necessarily better to my ears. If I heard it in person I might think differently, but for over twice the cost and a more difficult install the Schatten seemed like a better option.

ljguitar - Thank you for the first-hand review on the pickup. I'm having a hard time finding many reviews of it online. Usually people install the full Anthem pickup. I'm tempted to try the Lyric out since it's easy to remove if I don't like it. One of the big negatives for me is I prefer to not a battery in my guitar like with my passive the Schatten pickup.

The reason I like the Dazzo and Trance systems is that I can install them in the locations shown in the instructions and from the get-go, I'll have a well-balanced and full tone across all the strings with all EQ Flat. I've found my perfectly-located Schatten HFN pickup installations require an additional EQ boost of a good +5 dB or more in the region of 90 to 100 Hz just to try to balance out the 6th string with the others. I've also found the 1st string is usually of lower output than the central four strings. If Schatten could redesign their HFN pickup by including two more piezo sensors, one on each end of the brass-case sensor bar, I'll bet it would then be well-balanced across all strings and be an exceptional pickup system. Schatten's reasoning for the one centrally-located sensor is to eliminate any phasing issues that could occur from having vibrations coming in from each of the three feet. Maybe phasing issues also preclude adding two more sensors to the HFN pickup. Don't know, maybe.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Lapo

If your looking for the most natural sound with feedback resistance somewhere in the ballpark of the Lyric, I'd recomend the Closeup system from YH Audio. It sounds much better and honestly sounds to me like a nice sounding condenser mic. I don't know exactly how the feedback resistance compares, but it is quite resistant. I haven't played live in years so can't get into more detail in that regard.

What they don't show in the pictures for some reason is that it can purchased as an internally installed version. It is attached to the internal portion of a YH endpin jack. They say it sounds the same in either location. The version in the pictures is the one I have, and has the advantage of being able to be switched over to another instrument in seconds. It just slips in and out really easily, and you flick a switch on the preamp box to move to another position.

https://www.yourheaven.net/product/c...system-guitar/

The Close-Up System looks like an interesting mic/preamp system that apprently uses Impulse Response (IR) technology and enables a player to develop IR algorithms using their guitar. Its onboard mic feeds an outboard control device. In the comparative website demo, it sounds as good as the standalone Neumann and DPA mics. I don't really like the soundhole cover/mic suspension system but it's removable and helps isolate the mic from external audio vibrations.

Close Up System Comparative Demo

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi aschroder…
I have a friend with a country-folk band. The bassist is electric, and occasionally he adds a jazz guitarist through his amp. The mandolin and fiddle are amplified with pickups.

He has a great 2005 Taylor just-smaller-than-dreadnaught, and he's a full-time strummer who writes and sings country/folk gigs. Amplified sound was his nemesis for years.

He tried the built in Taylor pickup, a K&K, a hybrid rig, and finally installed a Lyric.

My gigging partner and I opened for them the other night, and I got to bring my wife and sit in the audience while they played…his guitar was great sounding!

It has has never sounded so good! He's a pretty crunchy strummer who drops his hand on the bridge frequently (which has disqualified most of his former pickup rigs).

At loud to more-than-loud levels that night there was never a hint of feedback. The tone was natural, and acoustic-centrid.

I could believe that it be easy to dial back the mids on his Aura preamp's parametric midrange if he were to really needed another bunch-o-db.

On top of it all, he runs the 15" - 3 way stage monitors 3-4 feet in front of him…hotter than the house, with no hint of feedback.

After some 'negative' and 'suspicious' talk about the Lyric over the years here on the forum, I was not expecting it to sound/work so well on a rather average generic sound system (Behringer 16 channel board with 1800W power into a pair of Yamaha 12" two way cabinets).

Sounded great, and they don't even use a sound man - they just set-it-up and play.

I am glad you liked the Lyric. This has been my experience with that pickup as well. When I had it in my Taylor, it just sounded great. I still go back and listen to shows I recorded where the Lyric was in my guitar and it always sound wonderful. I only took it out because I wanted more bass. I lean more and more these days to going back to the Lyric.

Oddly enough, although the Lyric is a mic, I felt more confident with it on a loud stage than pretty much any other pickup I have tried. I never had any issues.

[aschroeder]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

The reason I like the Dazzo and Trance systems is that I can install them in the locations shown in the instructions and from the get-go, I'll have a well-balanced and full tone across all the strings with all EQ Flat. I've found my perfectly-located Schatten HFN pickup installations require an additional EQ boost of a good +5 dB or more in the region of 90 to 100 Hz just to try to balance out the 6th string with the others. I've also found the 1st string is usually of lower output than the central four strings. If Schatten could redesign their HFN pickup by including two more piezo sensors, one on each end of the brass-case sensor bar, I'll bet it would then be well-balanced across all strings and be an exceptional pickup system. Schatten's reasoning for the one centrally-located sensor is to eliminate any phasing issues that could occur from having vibrations coming in from each of the three feet. Maybe phasing issues also preclude adding two more sensors to the HFN pickup. Don't know, maybe.

You're experience is similar to mine with the Schatten HFN. I have to boost the low Hz and even cut some of the high frequencies for the 6th string to balance it out. I use a Boss GE-7 pedal as a preamp and EQ that does a good job balancing it out. It sounds great after some EQing, but based on your experience it sounds like the Dazzo is more balanced without EQ.

I ended up ordering a Baggs Lyric today to see how it sounds. I'll post a review after I've had a chance to install the Lyric pickup and test it out.

[bkepler]

I have Lyrics in a Lowden G-series (same as the current big-bodied O-series) and a Pono 12-fret dread. Both sound very balanced and work great as a solo guitar. As others have noted, when it’s dialed in, it sounds like your acoustic guitar. I think (other than the occasional misplacement in mounting) people are disappointed because it lacks that artificial bass that you can get through a transducer or mic proximity. For me, that’s a plus. That being said, I do keep a guitar with a piezo in it for occasions when I need that artificial bass presence. I hope you enjoy your purchase and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on it.

[edward993]

Originally Posted by aschroeder

...But I only play solo gigs with a Bose L1 PA system, so feedback shouldn't be a major problem for me. I also have a parametric EQ that could dial out any feedback issues....

That you play alone is the key, and I think the Lyric will work well for you. Not because of its gain-before-feedback but because the Lyric is not good at strong, punchy bass or quick attack, qualities that are more suited to playing in a full band mix.

I've personally found the Lyric is better suited to the solo player, say, the fingerstylist or singer/songwriter vibe. In these cases, the guitar can be EQd to sound pretty credible. But in a full band setting, the Lyric is lost in the mix, and for the life of me I couldn't get it to cut through without sounding nasal and unnatural ...wholly unpleasing, and I know how to EQ well. Oh, and you having a parametric is also excellent: not for killing feedback but for fine-tuning the Lyric and how it will sound in your guitar. Hope that helps you a bit.

Edward

[stevecuss]

The Lyric is an excellent pickup/microphone in so many ways. The two most common challenges are the way it sort of turns your whole guitar 'live' so chord changes and shirts with buttons can activate louder string squeak and percussive noises respectively. The second challenge being that the bass response is flat. Flat could be a negative if you like the hyped bass response of most acoustic pickups, or it could be just the ticket, so I don't say 'flat' to mean 'lifeless' but to mean 'not boosted and most certainly heavily cut in the preamp to avoid mic feedback.'

We've run a lyric in a live hot band situation (live drums, two electric guitars on stage) and we've been staggered at how well it cuts through and sits in the mix at loud volumes. Just staggered.

But then we've gone to just solo acoustic and felt we wanted more oomph which is to say, we like that hyped bass.

I run Schatten pickups now with a custom internal preamp from MiSi. I have to dial down the bass. There are many great SBT options but yeah, the Lyric is pretty amazing.

[Peter Z]

I have a Lyric in a Martin CEO-7 and a D-18. It sounds much nicer in the smaller CEO-7. As a result, I don’t use the D-18 in a live setting. Maybe it’s worth to play a little more with the placement.

But, also with the CEO-7 the Lyric only sounds nice at lower volumes. In the band, with drums and bass the sound gets very midrangey. Probably not because of the lyric but because the top gets excited by too much air movement.

At higher volumes a parametric EQ was necessary with all pickups I ever had and good with most pickups even at low volumes. I don’t need much eq with an Anthem (both full or SL), but still some.

If I remember correctly, Aaron explained in his Lyric YT-video how to dial out a guitars resonance frequency with an eq. He did that very well.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I am glad you liked the Lyric. This has been my experience with that pickup as well. When I had it in my Taylor, it just sounded great. I still go back and listen to shows I recorded where the Lyric was in my guitar and it always sound wonderful. I only took it out because I wanted more bass. I lean more and more these days to going back to the Lyric.

Oddly enough, although the Lyric is a mic, I felt more confident with it on a loud stage than pretty much any other pickup I have tried. I never had any issues.

Hi P…
I like the sound and control of my K&K plus internal mic (with external preamp) more than the lyric. Personal preferences and the desire for more tweak ability led me this direction. But if what a player wants is better-than-under-saddle-by-adding-a-mic the Lyric is good.

I learned to deal with (control) feedback on loud stages 15 yrs ago. It may take additional gear, so it’s in my gear bag just in case.