12 fret small body cutaway recommendations?

[Shaneh]

Here is the recording king model that fits your requirements

https://reverb.com/item/62920969-rec...ding-king-case

[ethanay]

Originally Posted by Shaneh

Here is the recording king model that fits your requirements

https://reverb.com/item/62920969-rec...ding-king-case

Thank you! It almost fits, it has the longer scale length (25.4" vs 25") but it's worth investigating...orders of magnitude less expensive than the other options, for sure! But I've heard good things about the Recording King brand, I think?


Otherwise, I'm feeling drawn toward the Bourgeois 00-12 C for a jack of all trades guitar.

[AZLiberty]

PV-09 or PV-03R would be my recommendation. But only because you specified Wood.

Otherwise I would have said a Rainsong Parlor.

[ethanay]

I'm still considering the Larrivee parlor, but just about narrowed down to the Bourgeois 00-12 C or a Breedlove Concertina.



I think I'm still considering Larrivee for some romantic reasons, as my first guitar instructor loved them and it was the first all-solid wood US-made guitar I had ever purchased, and I really wanted an LV-03R when I was young.


I was also considering an Urlacher parlor that's for sale here in the forums. It looks like an amazing guitar, no doubt, but I think in a moment of clarity that I'm looking more for something that overlaps as little as possible with my Emerald X7 sonically while still being within my specs. I think I'll get quite a bit more mileage out of a ~25" scale than a 24" scale (lead, rhythm and fingerstyle work)


https://www.laguitarsales.com/index....ndack-018.html this is the specific guitar that I'm giving heavy consideration to...! I'm finding it difficult to assess value given what seems like an incredible range of price variation between different Bourgeois lines. Is this a fair price?

[KevinH]

Originally Posted by ethanay

...https://www.laguitarsales.com/index....ndack-018.html this is the specific guitar that I'm giving heavy consideration to...! I'm finding it difficult to assess value given what seems like an incredible range of price variation between different Bourgeois lines. Is this a fair price?

When I was looking for a Bourgeois 00, about a year ago now, I kept track of prices of new and used ones. I came to the same conclusion you have - that there are so many lines and customizations, even for a single model, that it's hard to figure out if a certain price is representative of recent sales. But FWIW I was finding prices for new 00s that ranged from about $1K less than the one you referenced, to several $K more, depending on woods and options. I'm sure the adi top and that nice looking EIR adds to the price.

[Jeff Scott]

Look for a used Yamamoto Talus. There were two versions made (long or short scale). They are extremely comfortable guitars with the three bevels on the body (arm, chest, leg). The Manzer Wedge ™ also provides excellent comfort to the picking arm and retains excellent bass for such a small body. Mine is the short-scale version (VS-12).

[ethanay]

Thanks for the Talus recommendation, Jeff! I'll see if there are any available in the used market...



and thank you Kevin for sharing your experience. I thought I was going stupid trying to navigate the spiderweb of Bourgeois trim levels, models, body types, customizations, etc

[ScottSD]

Originally Posted by Jimi2

I played a v-class 522ce a few times, and it had a just lovely, sweet tone. Not much bass though, despite it being a 12 fret. I wonder if x-braced versions sound better. At any rate, I would absolutely play one if you can find one nearby. I agree that they feel a lot smaller than OMs.

I have a 522E that's X braced, plenty of base to my ear. I love mine so much I just bought a 522CE to have a cut away. I'm not a fan of V bracing but you really ought try an older 522 If you can find one.

Scott

[s2y]

I'm still haunted by Michel Aboudib's 00 that he brought to BIG this year.

[ethanay]

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on that 00-12C! It just seems to tick all the boxes for me. I don't need bevels with a 14.5" lower bout and 4" depth, and am unsure how large I could go with a guitar that has those ergonomic appointments, anyway. I am intimately familiar with this size of guitar already.

Did a lot of research, found a great used one in mint condition at what seems like a fairly good price. Although it is only $500 off the new list price, it includes the pickup, a very expensive case upgrade, free shipping and they are footing the sales tax, which at these price points is a significant chunk of change).

https://www.visesnutcase.com/index.p...&product_id=66 is the upgraded case. Wowza.

As a bonus, I could swap out cases between my nylon and steel strings and give whatever guitar needs the better protection at the time. The only downside is no warranty.

A new similarly-spec'd version of the guitar would be an additional 25% not including the case upgrade. I don't really care too much about the case, but if I include that in the calculation it's about a 30% difference in cost, for reference. I could lower the price by not going with the torrefied and just let the playing and time take its course. The soonest it would be available is July 2023, more likely September 2023. So the used guitar seems like a good deal.

I've never had a guitar with a torrefied top before. I'm a bit leary about it (mainly because I wonder how much exposing the young guitar to the vibrations of playing settles the wood in a particular way), but it seems like many high quality builders are singing its praises.

Input still welcome, but I greatly appreciate everyone's helping me think through this situation! I'm really looking forward to getting back to the music production and performance process once the dust has settled from this whole terrible misadventure.

[Dotneck]

I think the 00-12C is the right choice. Good luck.

[KevinH]

I agree with Dotneck. That looks like a good deal. I've never regretted buying my Bourgeois 00. Let us know how it goes.

[ethanay]

Guitar is on its way...once it comes, 24 hrs to acclimate, then I open the case and the 3 day trial begins. I'm keeping an open mind.



Things that I'll be looking for:
1. Neck dive: I'm worried about neck balance/dive, with the extra weight that they build into the neck with those steel spring plates, hefty truss rod and carbon inserts. This one will be a bit tough to judge as it doesn't have a heel strap button yet. It's one of the reasons why I sold my Papoose...I just got annoyed with neck dive. I don't want to have to depend on strap friction to keep my guitar in position, and I don't like the feel of it pulling down.

2. The voice: My Goodall was a Goodall, which was fantastic but a bit too specialized in sound for an all-arounder, for my tastes (though it didn't stop me from using it that way). It was great for when I was almost exclusively doing solo fingerstyle work, but I find myself gravitating toward something where I want a bit thicker fundamental presence and a bit more of a balance that will overall be more versatile for me since I'm really focusing down my instruments. I've heard the Bourgeois described that way and recordings seem to bear it out. So we'll see in person.

[KevinH]

Happy pre-NGD! It looks like a beautiful guitar. I'll be interested in your impressions.

[ethanay]

Guitar arrived yesterday. Gave 24 hrs to acclimate.


Definitely the base tone I'm looking for. Tight but very present bass and great balance highs and lows up and down the neck. Will work fantastic for both fingerpicking and flat picking/strumming if/when issues are addressed (below). Just enough overtone shimmer but far more fundamental than my Goodall had, and greater balance from highs to lows. Doesn't confuse my tuners as much as my Goodall did! (although the Goodall somehow seemed to gravitate toward in-tune)



I'm still worried about neck dive if/when I decide to keep it and install a strap button. That would ruin it for me. How do these guitars tend to balance?



Guitar didn't come with a truss rod and the nut looks very heavily recessed beyond that first brace, embedded into the fingerboard block that bolts to the top. None of my hex keys will reach out to where the nut actually is. Might need a special truss rod from Bourgeois? (I think they are supposed to be included new...the case also was supposed to have some accessories that are missing, such as keys)


The biggest issue is that the unwound strings are just almost completed choked out. There is just no headroom to them, even when fingerpicking and especially flat picking. The neck is a little straighter than I like, but the issue plays all the way up the neck so I think it's either a neck angle issue or someone cut the saddle too low. The main bolts running parallel to the neck were a little loose, so I snugged them up so they weren't loose but that obviously made the action worse. It's painful to hear how choked it is, because it's so ****ed resonant on the open strings and the last fret :P


The last issue is that high fret access is iffy. I do a bit of stuff above the 12th fret and I'll need to assess whether I can modify some voicings or stretch or contort my hand to get it done. For example, there's a voicing in one of my songs that is (string) open A, E 14th fret (D), F 10th fret (G), C 13th Fret (B), D 10th fret (E). I typically bar on the 10th fret and play the other two notes with my 3rd and 4th fingers.



That last issue is really the only one I have to decide whether I can live with re: the intrinsic design of the guitar, but the other issues are sort of clouding my judgment.