#16
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Marco "If want to be happy, be." (L.Tolstoj) |
#17
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#18
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The IR that is being created during training is a complex filter that has both magnitude (peaks and dips in volume at different frequencies) and phase information (whether to push or pull at a given frequency). When you use a pickup like the Barbera or Baggs LB6 with mixed polarity sensors, and you play all of them during training, you are giving the filter building algorithm mixed messages: push, no wait - pull, no no, I mean push, etc. The end result is that over time with a mix of push and pull signals, things tend to cancel out resulting in a weak and hollow sounding IR. Earlier on, we used to have tighter controls on what we would allow the IR generator to accept as a contributor to the IR. Among other things, this would protect the user from the evils of mixed polarity pickups. This is most likely what Doug Young experienced. For a while now, we've loosened the controls and in fact, a mixed polarity pickup will make it through training these days. But the results will be weak and hollow sounding. But this can be dangerous in a way A case in point is when I went to give some assist to Lyle Lovett's guitar player Jeff White who loved his ToneDexter on mando but was getting weak and hollow sounding WaveMaps on his guitar that was equipped with - you guessed it - a mixed polarity pickup, a Baggs LB6. Once we retrained playing just the strings that were of the same polarity - goodness came back into the room. Here's the link about that: https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=573383 As Jon has pointed out, don't expect anyone's IR generator to be able to get around the laws of physics. No matter what marketing departments will tell you, or not tell you.
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James May Audio Sprockets maker of ToneDexter James May Engineering maker of the Ultra Tonic Pickup |
#19
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I have a Helix, tried the Optima Air and returned it, and will be gigging tomorrow night with the Voiceprint. So far, I like it's simplicity and app control as well as the obvious reason- I'm happy with the tones I'm getting. I have never (though probably should've tried) a Tonedexter so I can't speak to that. I don't think you can go wrong either way based on the positive feedback I've read about both.
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83 Fender Strat Elite 89 Fender American Standard Strat 99 Taylor 710ce 06 Taylor Koa T5 09 Takamine 12 string 11 Taylor NS24ce-LTD 13 Gibson Les Paul Standard 14 Fender Geddy Lee Jazz Bass 16 Taylor 524ce Mahogany 16 Taylor GS Mini Mahogany 17 PRS SE Custom 24 23 Taylor GS Mini Walnut LTD --------------------- |
#20
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From the Audio Sprockets website: Guitar pickups that can work with caveats LR Baggs Lyric – sound-board mic, active, with volume control. Has some non-linear compression that hampers the ability to train optimally. Some users have reported success, some have had problems. Not recommended. https://www.audiosprockets.com/support/pickup-guidance/
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Taylor 914ce Taylor 914ce Charcoal Last edited by stringbound; 02-05-2021 at 05:41 AM. |
#21
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The latest ToneDexter firmware gives the "character" knob an extra feature where it can leverage a pair of IRs. One for low frequencies (lushness but feedback provoking) and one for high frequencies (dequacking). It allows you to pull back on the lushness while retaining 100% of the dequack. This is a really cool feature.
ToneDexter does not off load the math heavy lifting to your phone and can real time in your pedal at the direction of firmware do this kind of trick and others yet to be discovered by their developers. The Wavemap stored by ToneDexter is dramatically larger than just a simple IR (my generator's IR's are, 2048 16 bit samples, or 4K bytes, and that is the limit of almost all IR loaders). They've got capability in hardware and stored IR data that probably has not been fully tapped. This fundamental design decision to keep the IR generation in the pedal, to store more data than just an IR, plus a no compromise physical pedal design, is why I feel ToneDexter is a better choice.
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator .wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE My duo's website and my email... [email protected] Jon Fields Last edited by jonfields45; 02-06-2021 at 07:38 AM. |
#22
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No matter what a company says or what it looks like on paper, it always comes down to what sounds best in the context that it’s being used.
The tricky part with recommendations, is that we all want something slightly different. Knowing you plan on using this live impacts what might work best. It’s been my experience that a full IR isn’t my cup of tea in a live environment. In this case, the way in which it blends with your pickup is really important to me. If you will be using it for recording or streaming direct, then the sound of the full IR sound becomes more important. Also pickup compatibility is important too. Despite the theories that they should both work the same, this isn’t always the case with gear. I’m my very limited time trying out both of these products to make the same decision, I have found that the voiceprint works better with the Anthem than the Tonedexter. And the Tonedexter creates an IR that sounds better at full blend with very little eq needed. The voiceprints I’ve made have required quite a bit of eq in the low and low mids. Thankfully, the app allows for this. I am not yet to the place where I have made my decision, so I can only recommend that you try both out too! I bought my Tonedexter used and should be able to recoup all or most of my money should I decide to sell it. I assume we’ll start seeing used voiceprints for sale too. I’m personally willing to lose a little money to try them both and feel confident that I have the product that works best for me. Everybody is in a different financial situation, so that may not be in the cards, but if it’s possible, that would be my recommendation. |
#23
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Here's a thought - does the Voiceprint still work when your iPhone is switched off?
I was burnt recently when I bought an Audiolab hifi streamer that relied on the phone, which I thought was used as a control interface, where in fact the streamed audio either from the internet or network server is actually streamed through the phone. So, does the Voiceprint change its settings at all or even stop working if your phone is off? Cheers, Colin |
#24
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The phone is only needed when making the voiceprint. Other than that, you can use the pedal all by itself. If you wanna make eq changes though you need to open your phone. |
#25
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Ok thanks that’s good! I’m currently trying out a Tonedexter and I’d like to try a Voiceprint too. Total dependence on an iPhone would have been a dealbreaker.
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I know this is a year old thread but I am trying to decide between the Tonedexter and the Voiceprint. I have excellent recording mics I could use with the Tonedexter to create the IR, but for the Voiceprint I have a Samsung Android phone. The Androids are now supported for the Voiceprint but I am wondering if the mic in the phone would give me a crappy recording of my guitar?
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Warren My website: http://draudio56.wix.com/warren-bendler "It's hard...calming the Beatle inside of me." |
#27
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As my username suggests, huge fan of Yamaha products. Own many acoustic-electric models from 2009-present and a couple electric. Lots of PA too. |
#28
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Warren My website: http://draudio56.wix.com/warren-bendler "It's hard...calming the Beatle inside of me." |
#29
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I tried a variety of mics with the Voiceprint, and got no better results than with the phone. Baggs has incorporated the characteristics of the phone mics in their training, so it's at least possible that the phone mic is the best bet - because the training software knows what it's working with. Presumably they have done the same with the Android version.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#30
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Thanks, guys. After verifying that my phone is compatible with the app, I ordered the Voiceprint. I like the flexibility of the EQ that I saw on Teja Gerken's demo. Also, who knows if or when the Tonedexter will be in stock. The website says that no dealers have stock and they can't make any because they can't get the chips. Looking forward to trying this out!
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Warren My website: http://draudio56.wix.com/warren-bendler "It's hard...calming the Beatle inside of me." |