AAA vs Master Grade

[msbedard]

I’m going back and forth between the Furch Vintage 3 OOM-SR and Furch Vintage 2 OOM-SR As best as I can tell from reading the specs the only difference is that the Vintage 2 uses grade AAA for top and sides while the 3 uses Master Grade. There is an up charge of $400 for the Master Grade.

Unfortunately I am not able to play either before purchasing due to geographical constraints. Am I likely to hear enough of a difference with my 71 year old ears to justify spending the additional $400?

[Silly Moustache]

AFAIK, there is no generally agreed definition of A,AA,AAA, or master grade or "select" or whatever.

Whatever they might mean these terms are purely about aesthetics and not about resonance/tonality.

I have a theory that "select" an oft used description means "the one on the top of the pile", and little more.

I've seen beautifully figured tops that sounded "meh" and very mediocre looking tops that were tonally blissful.

"and that's all I gotta say 'bout that!"

[Goodallboy]

If you can’t play them, it won’t matter.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by msbedard

Am I likely to hear enough of a difference with my 71 year old ears to justify spending the additional $400?

Short answer, no. If you are unable to play either of them prior to buying, then for sure not.

Guitar wood grading is fairly subjective and largely, but not entirely, based on aesthetics and varies between those doing the grading. "Master" grade is usually used to denote a guitar top that is very rare: it is "perfect" in every way based upon the criteria used, typically close, very uniform grain spacing, no color variation, perfectly quarter sawn/strong medullary rays pattern, very stiff, very resonant, no blemishes or irregularities in the grain of any kind and minimal runout.

In practice, it is becoming more common that "master" grade means its the best of what's available. In some woods, that might not be more than what was previously considered an "A", more or less average of what's available. Red ("Adirondack") spruce is a good example of that. What is often being sold as "master" grade might be an "A" in Sitka.

Add to all of that the disconnect between what the wood looks like and how it sounds in a finished instrument. How the wood is used matters at least as much as the quality of the wood itself. A good maker can make a "master" grade sounding instrument from lesser wood, while a not-so-good maker can make a mediocre sounding instrument from "master" grade wood. In many large-factory-made guitars, there is often considerable variation in sound from guitars of the same model and same materials. Lots of variables of which the "grade" of the wood is only one.

[mcduffnw]

So the really short answer is No...you will not be able to hear any difference between the AAA and Master Grade...and certainly not a $400 difference.


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[OddManOut]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

AFAIK, there is no generally agreed definition of A,AA,AAA, or master grade or "select" or whatever.

...


I've seen beautifully figured tops that sounded "meh" and very mediocre looking tops that were tonally blissful.

Agreed 100%. Cosmetics have nothing to do with tone.



The proof of the guitar pudding is in the hearing and playing.

[musicman1951]

All guitars sound different, and for many reasons. Given that you can't try the guitars I would save the $400 and insist that it was the better sounding guitar, anyway!

[hubcapsc]

I would think, because you're comparing apples to apples (furch
to furch), that they think the master grade one is "better" in some
way. I would think that, in general, aa and select and those other
terms don't have objective meanings...

-Mike

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by hubcapsc

I would think, because you're comparing apples to apples (furch
to furch), that they think the master grade one is "better" in some
way. I would think that, in general, aa and select and those other
terms don't have objective meanings...

-Mike

Furch "thinks" it's better because "on paper"...the spec's including cosmetically subjective wood grading...are "better"...and it costs more. That last point is definitely "better" for Furch.

But judging the actual guitars on their actual sonic and playability merits, the model 2 could easily actually be just as good, or even a better guitar than the model 3...just comparing a given guitar to a given guitar.

There are few, if any, absolutes, in the world of acoustic guitars.


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[vld]

Hi Michael,
as others stated above: a top wood grade is strictly subjective.

But the AAA vs. master grade should not be the only difference between Vintage 2 and 3. At least for current lines

Vintage 2 should have:
- herringbone rosette
- arfificial ivory (= plastic) body, fingerboard and headstock binding
- ebony headstock overlay

Vintage 3 has:
- abalone rosette
- koa body, fingerboard and headstock binding!
- rosewood headstock overlay


So for the price difference your are getting also very nice koa binding instead of white-yellowish plastic

[Bill Kraus]

As others have mentioned, this is mainly a cosmetic consideration. The best thing to do is make arrangements to call the seller and have them give you an in hand description of the sound of both guitars, and/or have them make you a recording of each guitar if possible.

[hubcapsc]

Vintage 2 should have:
- herrinbone rosette

I'd go for that one even if it had a plywood top

-Mike

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by msbedard

I’m going back and forth between the Furch Vintage 3 OOM-SR and Furch Vintage 2 OOM-SR As best as I can tell from reading the specs the only difference is that the Vintage 2 uses grade AAA for top and sides while the 3 uses Master Grade. There is an up charge of $400 for the Master Grade.

Hi msb

Grading is visual not aural.

[Emil]

I think that if you were to sell the guitar down the road the 400$ upgrade will for sure not add to the value on the second hand market.
It might be the thing that makes someone pull the trigger on it bur very few will pay the premium to get it.
Not trying to be a downer but dont expect your money back on that move.

[msbedard]

Thanks for all your input. I’m going with the Furch Vintage 2 OOM-SR assuming we can come to terms.