Help me decide: Tonedexter or Voiceprint?

[gfirob]

I am a major tonedexter fan and have now used if for years, including playing out. It has amazed other guitarists too. I do not use it when performing with electric guitars though. Hard to beat an aggressive Strat with a mellow acoustic. So I go with the naked K&K in those occasions. But if its me and my guitar, or me and other acoustics, the Tonedexter is the as constant as the northern star…

I would buy a Tonedexter 2 in a heartbeat. Great, effective, simple technology.

[DavidE]

The Nux Optima Air looks like a great option. Go on Youtube and search for Aaron Short's shootout of the Tonedexter, Voiceprint, Nux optima Air and Cuki's free IR loaded into Helix Native.

[Uncle Pen]

I use a Tone Dexter successfully with several k&k equipped acoustics. I might try a Voiceprint if the price was right, but in general I'm not an LR Baggs fan.

To me, one of the most compelling and convincing reasons to use Tone Dexter is that the unit is effectively self sufficient, and as a piece of equipment, it should have a long "shelf life". I.E., it doesn't rely on integration with propriety 3rd party devices that will inevitably be outdated, extinct, and unsupported in 5 years.

I'm excited to learn more about Tone Dexter 2. I'm hoping integrated reverb has been considered.

P.S.- If you rebut by claiming LR Baggs will continue to support and update their device for next generation smartphone compatibility well into the future, by all means believe what you wish. Android users have had to literally wait years to even be able to use the device.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Uncle Pen

P.S.- If you rebut by claiming LR Baggs will continue to support and update their device for next generation smartphone compatibility well into the future, by all means believe what you wish. Android users have had to literally wait years to even be able to use the device.

Just to clarify, the Voiceprint has been out for maybe two years and that’s pushing it considering most users didn’t get one when Baggs first started dropping videos. The Android app has been out for a few months now. That’s pretty quick IMO. Tech moves quickly for sure but there are hundreds of products that came out years ago that are still out there and being updated. Just look at the Eventide H9.

[Uncle Pen]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Just to clarify, the Voiceprint has been out for maybe two years and thatÂ’s pushing it considering most users didnÂ’t get one when Baggs first started dropping videos. The Android app has been out for a few months now. ThatÂ’s pretty quick IMO. Tech moves quickly for sure but there are hundreds of products that came out years ago that are still out there and being updated. Just look at the Eventide H9.

Statement heard, but as an Android user, I respectfully maintain my critique. How much time did R&D take to get product to market? I would argue that whatever period of time occurred should be added to the couple of years until present.

I concede the Android market is more difficult with a greater number of hardware variables, however wouldn't one think that this supports the point about potential lack of support in the future?

At the end of the day, we all would agree they are both tools. And I'm happy with the Tonedexter thus far.

[leew3]

Lots of good responses here. I don't see this as an 'either or' or 'which is best' scenario. Knowing that I'm a set it and forget it guy who likes simplicity (knowing ahead of time that this limits my options in terms of eq) I went with the Voiceprint DI. I'm happy with it, and would likely get much use out of a Tonedexter with potentially even better outcomes. I just chose what seemed like a better fit for me.

[marciero]

Am awaiting a Tonedexter I bought on Reverb. I am wondering how the notch control works. The documentation says that it uses "continuously variable, smart feedback reduction", but that it learns resonant freqs during training. That sounds like these frequencies are fixed once determined. How does it work in performance- are you simply attenuating the frequencies that were determined during training, or is there some active or "smart" functionality that either adjusts the frequencies or engages when it senses feedback or resonance?
Also, how many filters are there? The documentation does use the plural, but does not say how many.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by leew3

…I just chose what seemed like a better fit for me.

Hi leew…
Seems smart, prudent, and practical.

Do you think the audiences will be concerned about your choices?

Yeah…me either.

[marciero]

Audiosprockets does not list this pickup anywhere on the site- as recommended, not, caveats. It's more a microphone than a transducer, but unlike the Lyric, it is passive (at least mine is; the newer ones may be active), My understanding is that the Lyric issues had to do with artifacts-by design or otherwise- from it being active. It will be an interesting experiment. The intended guitar is a Selmer style that sounds great with the Dyn G and an SM 98 in the soundhole. The mic adds all the air, warmth, and bottom, and the dyn smacks you in the face with the midrange and brings out the bark of the guitar. The dyn has a low z XLR plug. I may try running it out of the insert of a Schertler amp and into the TD to train it. Thats how I would use it live. Not sure if that might introduce some of the issues that arise from active pickups...
I actually have a K and K pure Macaferri that was designed for these guitars sitting in a box but want to try the dyn.

[leew3]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi leew…
Seems smart, prudent, and practical.

Do you think the audiences will be concerned about your choices?

Yeah…me either.

Thanks...and you're exactly right-they don't even notice! Occasionally a guitar geek in our audience was ask me after the gig "do you like your CEO-7 better than the Taylor 814?" but that's very rare.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by marciero

Am awaiting a Tonedexter I bought on Reverb. I am wondering how the notch control works. The documentation says that it uses "continuously variable, smart feedback reduction", but that it learns resonant freqs during training. That sounds like these frequencies are fixed once determined. How does it work in performance- are you simply attenuating the frequencies that were determined during training, or is there some active or "smart" functionality that either adjusts the frequencies or engages when it senses feedback or resonance?

James May has posted extensively on this starting in 2021. You are attenuating the frequencies captured in the wavemap training. There is no post-wavemap frequency adjustment.
The usefulness of this is that you can adjust the notch control for each room you play in. Lots of feedback? Crank it up. No feedback? Leave it at 0.

Originally Posted by marciero

Also, how many filters are there? The documentation does use the plural, but does not say how many.

I seem to remember posts mentioning 2000.

[Gordon Currie]

Originally Posted by marciero

Audiosprockets does not list this pickup anywhere on the site- as recommended, not, caveats. It's more a microphone than a transducer, but unlike the Lyric, it is passive (at least mine is; the newer ones may be active), My understanding is that the Lyric issues had to do with artifacts-by design or otherwise- from it being active. It will be an interesting experiment. The intended guitar is a Selmer style that sounds great with the Dyn G and an SM 98 in the soundhole. The mic adds all the air, warmth, and bottom, and the dyn smacks you in the face with the midrange and brings out the bark of the guitar. The dyn has a low z XLR plug. I may try running it out of the insert of a Schertler amp and into the TD to train it. Thats how I would use it live. Not sure if that might introduce some of the issues that arise from active pickups...
I actually have a K and K pure Macaferri that was designed for these guitars sitting in a box but want to try the dyn.

I think you may be confused about using ToneDexter. You train it with a piezo and a mic to create an IR file (wavemap). You then use it with a piezo AND the wavemap to 'reconstitute' the mic sound.

You don't play it using a mic. The Shertler is a mic.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

I think you may be confused about using ToneDexter. You train it with a piezo and a mic to create an IR file (wavemap). You then use it with a piezo AND the wavemap to 'reconstitute' the mic sound.

You don't play it using a mic. The Shertler is a mic.

I interpreted this as him wanting to use ToneDexter to improve the sound of the Schertler (which in my experience is pretty boxy-sounding). Basically treating the Schertler as the pickup. I'd think in theory, you could do that, tho I tried applying ToneDexter to an internal mic and it didn't work all that well. Worth trying, tho.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

James May has posted extensively on this starting in 2021. You are attenuating the frequencies captured in the wavemap training. There is no post-wavemap frequency adjustment.
The usefulness of this is that you can adjust the notch control for each room you play in. Lots of feedback? Crank it up. No feedback? Leave it at 0.

Okay thanks. Will have to search here and take a look.

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I interpreted this as him wanting to use ToneDexter to improve the sound of the Schertler (which in my experience is pretty boxy-sounding). Basically treating the Schertler as the pickup. I'd think in theory, you could do that, tho I tried applying ToneDexter to an internal mic and it didn't work all that well. Worth trying, tho.

Exactly. Based on the literature, the TD is clearly designed for piezo, but the Lyric, another contact mic, is under "Can work with caveats" on the support page, citing only the issues caused by the preamp, and not the mic aspect. For years I used an SM 98 attached to a large bobby pin, hanging on the soundhole and suspended inside inside the guitar - either by itself or on occasion with the the Schertler. Both have worked well. We will see how the TD compares. I will probably use an SM 81 to train it. This is not the primary use case here for me - that is for a flat top with a k and k. I am never in a in a high volume situation with the Selmer guitar and am always seated so having multiple wires and a mic is not too much of an inconvenience. Not enough to justify the trouble and the expense, but having been sucked down this rabbit hole, will be worth trying.

[YamaYairi]

Well I did a live gig with the LR Baggs Voiceprint DI and my Martin HD28. Everyone said the guitar sounded very natural, and the sound man said it was the most natural acoustic guitar sound he has gotten on stage. I'm happy.