Anyone tried a unison solid pair on the 12 string?

Jimmy Recard · #1 07-31-2017, 04:15 AM

There's a lot of 12 string posts at present so I thought I'd get in on the action. I'm a big fan of Tom Feldmann's lessons and he often uses an unwound third on his 6 strings to achieve a desired tone. I'm also a John Butler fan and he removes the octave third on his 12 strings as he thinks it makes the guitar sound too trebly.

I see that elixir (and likely others) make a unwound 22 for their baritone set which can be bought as singles.

I'm wondering if anyone has tried a unison unwound pair on the third course?

1Charlie · #2 07-31-2017, 06:22 AM

You would probably need to widen the nut slot to accommodate a second wound 3rd string. And there would likely be no going back, without replacing the nut.

Brucebubs · #3 07-31-2017, 06:30 AM

Haven't tried that myself but yes I see a 'B' .022 plain is quite common in baritone sets.

FrankHudson · #4 07-31-2017, 08:56 AM

There are variations in 12-string stringing that are little known.

Other than open tunings also used by 6 string players, and tuning down as low as C to C, which does change the sound and fell quite a bit, there are the variations in how one handles the octaves.

The G string set on a 12-string is the most influential course. One piece of evidence for that is the Martin Jim McGuinn model 7-string which is a 6-string with only an octave G string added. John Pearse sells a kit to make this mod to an existing 6 string as well. McGuinn says that just adding that one octave course gets you much of the 12-string sound.

Conversely, tuning the G string course to unison instead of octave makes a considerable change. Early on in my 12-string playing I read that Leadbelly did that, so I often strung my 12 that way.

The 12-string I was playing then was a Cortez (Cort) dreadnaught. One nice thing about was that it had a zero-fret, meaning that it is very forgiving of sloppy nut slots.

Earlier this year I revived that old Cortez, as it has little or no value for resale, by stringing it up for Steve Tibbetts tuning, where only the G, but the D and sometime the A string courses are unison. I used to set of Martin 6 string extra light gauge as I recall to get the replacement unison strings. I just did the D and G, and tuned down to D to D as tension increase is considerable.

The guitar is no prize, but I like the different sound. I used it to record this performance of the Prologue to the Canterbury Tales:

https://frankhudson.org/2017/04/17/p...terbury-tales/

It's a bit darker sounding not just due to the D to D tuning, but because there's less of the high octave string upper zing. You still get the organic moving chorusing of the two strings vibrating independently.

Jimmy Recard · #5 07-31-2017, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

There are variations in 12-string stringing that are little known.

Other than open tunings also used by 6 string players, and tuning down as low as C to C, which does change the sound and fell quite a bit, there are the variations in how one handles the octaves.

The G string set on a 12-string is the most influential course. One piece of evidence for that is the Martin Jim McGuinn model 7-string which is a 6-string with only an octave G string added. John Pearse sells a kit to make this mod to an existing 6 string as well. McGuinn says that just adding that one octave course gets you much of the 12-string sound.

Conversely, tuning the G string course to unison instead of octave makes a considerable change. Early on in my 12-string playing I read that Leadbelly did that, so I often strung my 12 that way.

The 12-string I was playing then was a Cortez (Cort) dreadnaught. One nice thing about was that it had a zero-fret, meaning that it is very forgiving of sloppy nut slots.

Earlier this year I revived that old Cortez, as it has little or no value for resale, by stringing it up for Steve Tibbetts tuning, where only the G, but the D and sometime the A string courses are unison. I used to set of Martin 6 string extra light gauge as I recall to get the replacement unison strings. I just did the D and G, and tuned down to D to D as tension increase is considerable.

The guitar is no prize, but I like the different sound. I used it to record this performance of the Prologue to the Canterbury Tales:

https://frankhudson.org/2017/04/17/p...terbury-tales/

It's a bit darker sounding not just due to the D to D tuning, but because there's less of the high octave string upper zing. You still get the organic moving chorusing of the two strings vibrating independently.

Thanks for the information, and I enjoyed the track in the link. I'm looking forward to experimenting with these things when I pick up my 12 string in a couple of weeks. Sounds like I might need to buy some replacement nuts.

tippy5 · #6 07-31-2017, 03:16 PM

Bruce plays a drop open tuning with 10 strings to great effect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7XLeYMUZY4

This talented guy has a lot of utube hits with your single G string approach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdYJ...dYJf_ybyVo#t=0

philjs · #7 07-31-2017, 03:44 PM

I have a Martin J12-15 that is tuned to DADGAD with 4 unison pairs for the treble strings that gives me a cittern/bouzouki sound that I like. I'm using .056/.027 and .039/.020 octave pairs on the two low courses (DA) then pairs of .027, .022 (wound), .016 and .012 on the upper courses (DGAD).

Keep in mind that the Martin is an all-mahogany guitar and the mahogany top cuts the "jangly" sound quite a bit...I've had a number of 12-strings with spruce tops that made me cringe with how harsh the high octave strings sounded...the mahogany top solved that and unison stringing made it even sweeter. YMMV.

Phil

Earl49 · #8 07-31-2017, 03:59 PM

I use yet another variation, swapping the octave and wound G strings to put the octave string closer to the floor. When fingerpicked, the upstroke of my index finger then gets both G strings. With the standard arrangement, only the wound string is hit -- the octave string is often fully shielded unless you are really digging in -- and its absence is noticeable. Most of the time I can just move the two strings, but on some guitars it has been necessary to open up the uppermost slot for the wound string.

I have also played the Taylor nine string, with octaves only on the high three courses (G B E). You get some of the twelve string jangle but still get clear bass notes and runs, especially when playing alternating bass styles. That is easily tried by simply not putting on the octaves for the E A D courses.

I had not considered an unwound .022 G string, but that is certainly worth a try at my next re-string.

FrankHudson · #9 08-01-2017, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Recard

Thanks for the information, and I enjoyed the track in the link. I'm looking forward to experimenting with these things when I pick up my 12 string in a couple of weeks. Sounds like I might need to buy some replacement nuts.

StewMac sells an add-on zero fret thing:

http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and...lide_Nuts.html

Which would be ideal for fooling around with string gauges I'd think as zero fret guitars don't seem to mind a looser fit in the nut slots. I haven't used one myself though.