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Old 05-29-2020, 04:07 PM
KarenB KarenB is offline
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Default mini tuners

When a tuner says that it's a mini tuner (as compared to standard) does this refer to the whole machine head or just the button (the part you actually turn to get the string in tune). Anybody know a measure for a mini tuner? I'm trying to decide which would fit best of my Eastman 10OM. I don't know what the Ping tuners are that came with it.
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Old 05-29-2020, 04:51 PM
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David Eastwood David Eastwood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenB View Post
When a tuner says that it's a mini tuner (as compared to standard) does this refer to the whole machine head or just the button (the part you actually turn to get the string in tune). Anybody know a measure for a mini tuner? I'm trying to decide which would fit best of my Eastman 10OM. I don't know what the Ping tuners are that came with it.
'Mini' usually refers to the size of the machine head overall.

Can you post a picture of the tuners you want to replace?
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Old 05-29-2020, 05:00 PM
Mirosh Mirosh is offline
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At grotro.com you can find Grover tuners, and specs for each.
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Old 05-29-2020, 05:53 PM
KarenB KarenB is offline
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Thanks Mirosh. They have specs, but not for the button.
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Old 05-29-2020, 06:02 PM
KarenB KarenB is offline
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Eatswodo--here are the tuers on my guitar. Sorry that this is out-of focus.
IMG_6299.jpg

The luthier than will do the setup and the tuner swap recommended these:
Gotoh SD90-05M MGT Vintage Locking Tuners for Gibson Style. They are not listed in Gotoh's 2018 catalog, and I can't find out much about them

Screen Shot 2020-05-29 at 7.56.45 PM.png

He said they use the same mounting holes. Though the pegs are 8mm and the peghole on my guitar is 10mm, he said he can use a bushing to make up for the difference, and maybe some wood glue.
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Old 05-29-2020, 06:33 PM
Mirosh Mirosh is offline
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For the Grover tuners at grotro.com:

I see that for some models the spec sheet includes dimensions of the button. On the spec sheets that don't, you could get a close approximation because most of the other dimensions are given. The old ruler on the laptop screen trick.
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Old 05-29-2020, 06:52 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Looking at your pictures I can see your guitar has open gear tuners on it.

I very much doubt it has 10.0 mm holes based on your pictures.

Open gear tuners like yours are made to fit a smaller 8.75mm hole in the headstock.

Sealed gear tuners like Grover Rotomatics are designed to fit a larger 10.0mm hole.

So going from open gear tuners like yours to sealed gear will require a larger hole - done by reaming the existing hole to a larger size.

Going the other way, from sealed gear to open gear the existing hole will be too big but this can be overcome by fitting 'conversion bushings' designed for this very purpose.
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:18 PM
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Thanks Brucebubs. I was sharing the information given to me by Eastman about the size of the pegholes. I gave a used tuner (not working) to the luthier.
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:27 PM
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I've had this set of mini-Gotoh keys on my Mark Angus 12 string since it was built in 1983... they are great tuners!

Smaller overall than regular Gotohs... you can put anything on that guitar that you want; the hardest part is matching up the "footprint" of the old machines to get a completely sanitary look...

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Old 05-29-2020, 07:39 PM
Brucebubs Brucebubs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenB View Post
Thanks Brucebubs. I was sharing the information given to me by Eastman about the size of the pegholes. I gave a used tuner (not working) to the luthier.
I just found the Gotoh specifications for the locking tuners your luthier recommended.

I had to type Gotoh SD90-MGT (the 05M is the number for the button style)

https://g-gotoh.com/product/sd90-mgt/?lang=en

You can see in the specifications the push-fit bushing supplied is made to fit the smaller 8.75mm hole.

Should be a relatively easy swap.
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:48 PM
KarenB KarenB is offline
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Thanks Mirosh for that information.

Nice looking tuners, Jseth. It must be good to have to have locking tuners on a 12 string. What do you mean by "the hardest part is matching up the "footprint" of the old machines to get a completely sanitary look..." Are you talking about the mounting holes?

Thanks Brucebubs for finding the link. It eluded me.
These tuners have a gear ratio of 15:1. I'm used to 18:1. I wonder how different these will feel.
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When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down, “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life. —John Lennon
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Old 05-30-2020, 11:46 AM
KarenB KarenB is offline
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I ordered the Gotoh SD90-05M MGT Vintage Locking Tuners. Thanks everyone for your help in this thread and in previous ones. So much to learn!
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When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down, “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life. —John Lennon
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Old 05-30-2020, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenB View Post
Thanks Mirosh for that information.

Nice looking tuners, Jseth. It must be good to have to have locking tuners on a 12 string. What do you mean by "the hardest part is matching up the "footprint" of the old machines to get a completely sanitary look..." Are you talking about the mounting holes?

Thanks Brucebubs for finding the link. It eluded me.
These tuners have a gear ratio of 15:1. I'm used to 18:1. I wonder how different these will feel.
Yes, I was speaking of the holes for mounting the tuners... also, matching the diameter of the holes in the headstock for the spline on the tuners... as Bruce mentioned, they can be different sizes.

If you have a great tech to do the work, he should have no issues with this, regardless of any work needed to have everything "fit" correctly.

Now, I have a question for YOU! Why locking tuners on an acoustic guitar? I understand "what" they are, but I 'm wondering if there's a problem keeping the guitar in tune, and you're hoping that locking tuners will help?
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenB View Post
What do you mean by "the hardest part is matching up the "footprint" of the old machines to get a completely sanitary look..." Are you talking about the mounting holes?
As well as the positions of the mounting screws, there’s a strong likelihood that the back-plate of the existing tuner will leave an imprint of its outline in the headstock lacquer - this is what’s meant by its ‘footprint’. If you’re very lucky, your new tuners might exactly match this ‘footprint’ in size and shape, so there will be no visible evidence that you changed the tuners.

However, different tuners can differ in size and shape. If your new tuners are overall bigger, they will likely completely cover the old footprint but, if they are smaller in any dimension, or a slightly different shape, there’s a good chance that the old tuners’ footprints will be at least partly visible after the change. I had exactly this problem when I replaced a set of Grover Sta-Tite 18:1 tuners with Waverlys, the Grover back-plate was larger than the Waves, and the old footprint remained visible on several when the Waves were installed.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.
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Last edited by JayBee1404; 05-31-2020 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 05-31-2020, 04:50 AM
KarenB KarenB is offline
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Quote:
If you have a great tech to do the work, he should have no issues with this, regardless of any work needed to have everything "fit" correctly.

Now, I have a question for YOU! Why locking tuners on an acoustic guitar? I understand "what" they are, but I 'm wondering if there's a problem keeping the guitar in tune, and you're hoping that locking tuners will help?
JSeth:

The tech has been recommended by a high end boutique guitar store in my area. I am trusting him to be a "great tech." He has so far, been incredibly patient with my intense process of finding the right tuners.

The reason I got locking tuners is restringing my guitar is it not a process I thoroughly enjoy. I did it because it needed to be done. Read my sig and you will understand my motivation for wanting locking tuners.
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When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down, “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life. —John Lennon
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