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  #1  
Old 05-20-2020, 02:55 PM
Jimhar Jimhar is offline
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Default Stumbled into 1973 D-28 Martin ownership unintentionally

I went to inspect some "guitar making tools and wood" offered for sale that were described as the collection of tools of this sellers late husband. Lady knew nothing about the tools and materials other than she had no use for it and wished someone could put it to good use. Well after looking at the stuff she had to offer I decided to purchase the lot of tools for the advertised $200 price tag. It was not a bad deal as the the wood she had was probably worth more than the price she was asking so I agreed to purchase the lot. Well as I was finishing loading up all the materials and tools the lady said she had another box of stuff there if I wanted it. She said it was a broken guitar. I of coarse said yes that I did indeed want it and she opened it anyway to expose the contents all the while speaking of the guitar that her husband was going to fix. She mentioned that she thought it was a Martin! I just told my wife that morning that I wanted to get a Martin guitar! I guess the day was turning out to be OK! I do like a surprise.

Anyway as it turned out the instrument did prove out to be 1973 D-28 according to the serial numbers inside. The box held guitar body and neck already removed so I knew there were some surprises to look forward to on this guitar. When I got home with my treasure I began to inspect it much closer to assess what adventures this prize was going to lead to. So here is what I have found:

The sound board shows a screaming seam that is opening up from what appears to be excess drying/shrinkage. The surface layer shows distinctly the shrinkage/separation of the glued soundboard joint from the base of the neck to the other end of the top.The shrinkage of the two halves is visually obvious and when I placed a light behind the top shining from the inside I could see some square wood? cleats glued inside on the joint turned diagonally as attached from corner to corner of the cleat. The light revealed some pin holes shining through but mostly the halves still attached to each other. The separation of the surface layer does surprise me though with not total separation through the glue joint. I guess the shrinkage just did not pull it apart. Anyway the top appears to have been totally sanded of any finish that may have been on it.The sides and back are dark wood and finished with some normal wear and tear along with a crack on the back beside the neck joint about 4-5 inches long. Does any solution scream out at anyone?

Last edited by Jimhar; 05-22-2020 at 08:52 AM. Reason: to add photo
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2020, 04:32 PM
Skarsaune Skarsaune is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimhar View Post
Does any solution scream out at anyone?
Take it to a luthier.
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  #3  
Old 05-20-2020, 05:05 PM
Jimhar Jimhar is offline
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I thought I might give it a go myself. I did buy all the tools that this lady had for working on and building guitars with the idea that I would enjoy working on guitars in my retirement. So hiring someone to fix the thing isn't exactly what I had in mind. Thought someone here may be interested in sharing some knowledge.
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:26 PM
JCave JCave is offline
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Sounds like a project worth taking on. Be ready for surprises and a lot of work.
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  #5  
Old 05-20-2020, 06:17 PM
Jimhar Jimhar is offline
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I wholeheartedly agree with you there. I am in no hurry to move on this as I am not sure what the right thing to do is. I want to think that introducing moisture back into the wood will help to move the joint back together and present a better starting point for re-gluing the joint. I'm afraid if I glue the joint at this point it will never look right as I think fill will just not be right. I am at a loss to see how it came to look this way without having a gap opened up larger than it does now. It is almost as if someone tried to patch the joint without bringing it together. I'm just speculating here but if hydration does not work the top may have to be removed and re-glued then replaced. I dont want to have to do that. I hope there is a better solution.
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Old 05-20-2020, 06:42 PM
Skarsaune Skarsaune is offline
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Sorry for being blunt and to the point, but you asked what the screaming solution was, and that is to take it to someone that knows what they’re doing.

The “diagonal cleats” you’re seeing are most likely the main x brace on the top. Not recognizing that tells me that you have a steep learning curve in front of you. Which is fine if, as you said, you’re in no hurry.

Because the fix to this is not going to be answered in a single forum post.
I would go get two books - Cumpiano’s Guitar making and the Guitar Player Repair Guide by Dan Erlewine. But I’m a book person - I’m sure you can find videos on YouTube as well to help you understand the construction of an acoustic guitar, and lead you to understanding what’s required for your repair.

I’ll shut up now and wait for the pros to chime in.
First thing they are going to ask for is pictures.
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  #7  
Old 05-21-2020, 03:19 PM
Jimhar Jimhar is offline
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I am sorry for the poor description of what I observed inside the soundboard of the D-28 I stumbled into. The cleats I mentioned were placed on the inside of the seam that is separating on the soundboard. These were about an inch square but turned diagonally across the seam. I do know what the bracing inside the soundboard should look like and all of the bracing looks fine as far as I could see. It all appeared to be still attached well which leads me to think that the two cleats were added in an attempt to fix the joint which appears not to have been a success. I think this is a failed patch job myself. I will try to get some good pictures posted of the soundboard tonight. That may help some of the more experienced members to draw some realistic conclusions.
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  #8  
Old 05-21-2020, 06:28 PM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
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Default A thought

A D-28 ain't what I'd be learning new skills on. Way too much financial risk. And I'd sure like to know what work needs to be performed before a completely functional instrument emerges. I think taking it to a luthier for inspection and work estimates doesn't have a down side. Lots of learning, and with the right person, lots of learning. Offer to pay for a thorough inspection.
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Old 05-21-2020, 07:53 PM
tadol tadol is offline
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Actually, if the guitar was obtained for nothing, there isn’t any risk at all - but if the thought was that this would be something you could re-sell, or profit from, then it would be worth getting a professional evaluation. Who knows, you might find a luthier who would be willing to hold your hand through the process -
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  #10  
Old 05-21-2020, 08:17 PM
Jimhar Jimhar is offline
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Here are some pictures of the D-28 soundboard joint and neck which had been removed prior to my receiving it. They broke the fret board extension off as you can see in the pictures. Looks repairable to me. there are some shots of the inside of the guitar where the soundboard cleats were installed. The soundboard was sanded down to bare wood and I don't know why. The neck removal seemed to come off ok but the fingerboard extension broke in the process I guess and there is a crack on the back of the guitar probably associated with the removal process as it is in close proximity to the butterfly joint. I have pics that I can't get to post. Any help with that would be appreciated.
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  #11  
Old 05-21-2020, 08:22 PM
phavriluk phavriluk is offline
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Default A thought

This REALLY needs a skilled analysis. Sanding the soundboard...kiss of death to the soundboard? Specification creep is working. Perhaps a new top would be the right thing to do. Back to my first sentence.
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  #12  
Old 05-21-2020, 08:28 PM
Jimhar Jimhar is offline
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I wish I could get the photos of the guitar to post so you could see the issues im talking about.

Last edited by Jimhar; 05-22-2020 at 09:31 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-22-2020, 04:04 AM
Skarsaune Skarsaune is offline
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What’s your location? Somebody may be able to recommend a local luthier.

BTW It’s usually called a dovetail joint, as there isn’t a separate key/butterfly used.

Can’t help with the pics. There is a pinned post around here somewhere that details what’s required though.
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  #14  
Old 05-22-2020, 04:38 AM
Jimhar Jimhar is offline
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Default Pictures added

[IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG][IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG][/IMG]I am located in northeast Michigan and its fairly remote here but not what you would call off the grid. I have to drive 30 miles to nearest town. Most things we order online other than some things we would go to big box stores for.A local guitar repair shop not available to my knowledge. Looking to mostly places like this online to reach out to for information. I do want to do the right things with the guitar to not devalue the instrument and to restore it to its former glory in the right way. Hopefully the pics will post this time.

Last edited by Jimhar; 05-22-2020 at 06:24 AM. Reason: to add photo
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  #15  
Old 05-22-2020, 04:40 AM
Eric Greno Eric Greno is offline
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I was born in 1973 and would love a D-28 from that year, especially one in pieces. Let me know if you decide not to take on the project.

Eric
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