Major juncture and not sure which classical guitar to buy on Ebay, need an expert.

[Winfred]

BEFORE READING ON SEE MY POST AT #15. I BOUGHT A GUITAR JUST ABOUT AN HOUR AGO AND BIG THANKS TO ALL HERE AS YOU WERE ALL PART OF IT!!!


Hi! SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT MY GUITAR LIST BELOW BEING REMOVED AS I WILL LIST A DIFFERENT GUITAR I'M CONSIDERING AND WONDERING WHAT OTHERS WHO KNOW CLASSICAL GUITARS THINK. I LEARNED THE FINISH ON A GUITAR CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE. ONE GUITAR ON EBAY THE GUY SANDED DOWN THE FACE AND SOME DINGS THEN PUT SOMETHING LIKE "EURITHANE" ON IT SO I KNEW IT BEST NOT TO BUY THAT GUITAR!

I learned too that a sign of a good guitar is how it was finished and that "French Polishing" is one of the finishing types that is a good sign of quality. You'll see that with the Turkish built guitar I'm posting below. I ALSO LEARNED, BUT MAYBE DIFFERENT SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT, THAT FOR SOME REASON CLASSICAL GUITARS AGE TO BE WORSE. I NEED TO LOOK INTO THAT MORE AS MINE THAT I'VE HAD SINCE 1980, BUILT IN THE SIXTIES, SOUNDS JUST AS BEAUTIFUL, ALTHOUGH NOW THE NECK IS OFF AND $200 TO RESET IT ETC. This is the thread about it I found interesting:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=346459

i ALSO LEARNED THAT CEDAR TOPS, CEDAR WOOD AT LEAST WITH CLASSICAL DOESN'T AGE TO THE BETTER AND THAT OWNERS EVENTUALLY SELL THEM OR TRADE THEM IN AND THAT SPRUCE DOES NOT DO THAT. This is the thread where I found that interesting:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...ead.php?t=7801

REMOVING MY FORMER GUITAR LIST AND WILL POST A FEW MORE FOR ANYONE'S OPINION, BUT KEEPING THE MAIN MESSAGE POSTED BELOW HERE. I'VE BEEN BURNING MYSELF OUT AS USUAL AND NEED TO STEP BACK WITH PATIENCE BEFORE I DECIDE TO SPEND A LOT OF MY LIMITED SAVINGS. I STILL NEED A GUITAR AND WILL RESUME IN A FEW HOURS MY ONLINE SEARCH. MEANWHILE ANY INPUT HERE IS CHERISHED!! I LEARNED A LOT RIGHT HERE AND APPRECIATE IT. I should mention I also learned here that if buying on Ebay a guitar look at what else the seller sells. If it's only guitars then they actually know more about guitars and can describe them accurately. Others that sell an array of things you can't take what they say abut a guitar seriously, or that they can be misleading, so always check into the seller before you buy a guitar on Ebay. THANKS TO ALL!

I have a classical guitar I bought for $10 in 1980. I'm making a very important YouTube video that is going to be my debut as a musician. I'm low budget but got some stimulus money. I like guitars made back when materials were nicer, and because the wood in the older guitars are aged longer too, plus they end up for sale. Buying a guitar is a big decision for me, so I thought I'd at least ask. Beyond words I'd greatly appreciate any input! I fully understand if you can't.

For some reason a lot I found on Ebay were from 70's and 80's Japan. This one main seller says even laminated guitars, meaning the back and sides, not the top says the following:

Laminated” is quite unfortunate term regarding Japanese made guitars. These "laminates" were made from 2 layers of solid wood glued together with natural resins. They were made so well that they performed as good as solid woods while being far less expensive in guitar production and far more resistant to cracking in regular use."

I just found out from a contributor below that back and sides only effect 10% of tonality, and found out from the guy I quoted above that he thinks it effects 5% of it. I wonder though about "tonality" if that means volume too. Does anyone know? Really though I think of all those sellers making sales points about solid wood all the way around if maybe that's just sales talk, and about all the rosewood trees being cut down for 5 or 10% of tonality... although I know rosewood is also used in furniture and other things...

Do you find that true? He had quite a few all from Japan! I don't know if he went there and bought out a store in Japan or not. Thanks very much as any input is very much appreciated! First are my top 5 followed by the rest and had a goal of 12 to choose from.

Kindest Regards,
Winfred

I went through 15 pages of classical guitars with 50 guitars to a page, many hours, to find my former list. Now I'm just going to post some I'm still thinking about, especially the one made in Turkey. Any input would be much appreciated. I understand if you don't have time. I'm very appreciative.
Kindest Regards,
Winfred

HI! SPECIAL NOTE ABOUT MY GUITAR LIST BEING MAINLY OBSOLETE. I THINK TONIGHT I'LL TAKE IT DOWN TONIGHT. DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THIS GUITAR?
Kamaguna Classical Guitar Lotus Model RM-19.003 Doesn't doing mother of pearl inlay reduce the effect of the spruce wood on the face of the guitar?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Murat-Sezan...0AAOSw-Ddev~Y9


This is one that is made by a famous luthier who died, Murat Sezen. Do you think this is a good one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Murat-Sezan...0AAOSw-Ddev~Y9

[btbliatout]

I don't pretend to be an expert, but the layperson (like myself) understands that if all materials are equal, a solid piece of wood is more resonant than two pieces of that same wood glued together. - So I believe for a laminated top to beat a solid top, the laminated top will require superior materials and craftsmanship than the solid top.

However, my vote is to base your purchase on tone, if it's possible to figure that out. Assuming you're recording solo, volume isn't much of an issue. And laminated top or solid top, it doesn't matter as long as you get the tone you want.

[Winfred]

[QUOTE=btbliatout;6385730]I don't pretend to be an expert, but the layperson (like myself) understands that if all materials are equal, a solid piece of wood is more resonant than two pieces of that same wood glued together. - So I believe for a laminated top to beat a solid top, the laminated top will require superior materials and craftsmanship than the solid top.

However, my vote is to base your purchase on tone, if it's possible to figure that out. Assuming you're recording solo, volume isn't much of an issue. And laminated top or solid top, it doesn't matter as long as you get the tone you want.[/QUOT


Hi!

Very good point! I'm going to ask the seller... but I'm almost sure he was speaking of the back and sides and that the tops of those he is selling are solid spruce. Would that change how you're thinking some... if the tops were solid and he's referring to just the back and sides. I'm going to contact the seller. Thanks so much for your input!

Top of the Evening,
Winfred
PS I just went back to about 3 of his guitars and all have solid spruce top with laminated back and sides and that's what he says when on the subject of the Japanese guitar he is selling, the same info he copy and pastes to his other guitars too.

[Bax Burgess]

Hi Winfred. I would stay away from the Manuel Rodriguez Model D, for the simple reason that I don't have the impression that the seller knows guitars. Whichever one you choose, make certain that its action is to your liking, and if it's too high, that there's enough saddle left to sand or file down to the level that you desire. I have bought both laminate and solid sides/back guitars from Victor and they are uniformly excellent.

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by Bax Burgess

Hi Winfred. I would stay away from the Manuel Rodriguez Model D, for the simple reason that I don't have the impression that the seller knows guitars. Whichever one you choose, make certain that its action is to your liking, and if it's too high, that there's enough saddle left to sand or file down to the level that you desire. I have bought both laminate and solid sides/back guitars from Victor and they are uniformly excellent.

Hi Bax Burgess!

Thanks very much for taking the time to respond and advice from experience! Who is Victor? I didn't realize about looking to see if the seller is selling an array of items not related to guitars! I'll look again now with that much better confidence. I get too nervous as the auction continues with what I've chosen but must step back and see what others might say about whatever guitar on my list they focus on. I am very grateful as I really don't know a lot about guitars, have had the same guitar since 1980 I bought for $10 ha! I need to with my YouTube debut of my music put my best foot forward and get another guitar. I just did some trial videos with a new camcorder I really dug deep to get and realize more objectively I'd do much better if I have a more resonant guitar. I live in a big high-rise apt bldg and small apt with no shop skills or space so I have to take any repair or modification needs to a pro repair shop which of course costs more. I've had basically 2 repair pros turn my 1980 guitar away saying it looked so bad ha! The third pro worked on it once about 1 1/2 yrs ago, yet when I saw him last about November I could tell he was being very nice but skipping around about doing some adjustments to it. Thanks for all!
Top of the Evening!
Winfred

[btbliatout]

@Winfred:

If it's just the backs and sides that are laminated, then I personally wouldn't have any reservations. I've dormant memories of reading more than once that the top is 90%+ of the tone/volume. I've also heard that very few have the ears that can tell the difference in side/back materials, given everything else is the same. But of course I can't quote or reference white papers published by acousticians, so umm...fake news? But fake news I believe?

I'd say that the existence of Ovation supports the above. I've heard a lot of praise for the older models, both acoustically and plugged in. - I've heard very mixed reviews for Ovations made in the last decade though.

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by btbliatout

@Winfred:

If it's just the backs and sides that are laminated, then I personally wouldn't have any reservations. I've dormant memories of reading more than once that the top is 90%+ of the tone/volume. I've also heard that very few have the ears that can tell the difference in side/back materials, given everything else is the same. But of course I can't quote or reference white papers published by acousticians, so umm...fake news? But fake news I believe?

I'd say that the existence of Ovation supports the above. I've heard a lot of praise for the older models, both acoustically and plugged in. - I've heard very mixed reviews for Ovations made in the last decade though.

Hi Bax!
I just got an email from victor who sells guitars and he said just like you only said it's 95%! He said the back and sides only effect tonality at 5%! I never knew that and your input is right on! I think of all the rosewood trees cut down and becoming almost wiped out and all for 5% of the sound... although rosewood goes into a lot of other things and had a tour many years ago of General Mills company and their conference room had big panels of rosewood... I was thinking of older used classical guitars because I can't afford handmade ones of Martins or Taylors etc and hope for nice sound quality by trying to find ones with solid wood, only now you've opened up more possibilities. I did burn out going through 15 pages with 50 guitars a page last two days at Ebay to come up with this list of 12... most I found after 8 1/2 hours searching today... It's my debut with YouTube too and just got a good crit from a pro musician about my trial video... so I want to try again with a "new" guitar on some of my stimulus money... although I have to conserve.
Top of the Evening!
Winfred

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by btbliatout

@Winfred:

If it's just the backs and sides that are laminated, then I personally wouldn't have any reservations. I've dormant memories of reading more than once that the top is 90%+ of the tone/volume. I've also heard that very few have the ears that can tell the difference in side/back materials, given everything else is the same. But of course I can't quote or reference white papers published by acousticians, so umm...fake news? But fake news I believe?

I'd say that the existence of Ovation supports the above. I've heard a lot of praise for the older models, both acoustically and plugged in. - I've heard very mixed reviews for Ovations made in the last decade though.

Hi Bax!
I just got an email from victor who sells guitars and he said just like you only said it's 95%! He said the back and sides only effect tonality at 5%! I never knew that and your input is right on! I think of all the rosewood trees cut down and becoming almost wiped out and all for 5% of the sound... although rosewood goes into a lot of other things and had a tour many years ago of General Mills company and their conference room had big panels of rosewood... I was thinking of older used classical guitars because I can't afford handmade ones of Martins or Taylors etc and hope for nice sound quality by trying to find ones with solid wood, only now you've opened up more possibilities. I did burn out going through 15 pages with 50 guitars a page last two days at Ebay to come up with this list of 12... most I found after 8 1/2 hours searching today... It's my debut with YouTube too and just got a good crit from a pro musician about my trial video... so I want to try again with a "new" guitar on some of my stimulus money... although I have to conserve.
Top of the Evening!
Winfred

[evanpyle]

For my money, my top choices would be the LoPrinzi, Tamura and the Yamaha GC7. I had a LoPrinzi before...very nice guitars, handmade by Augie and his daughter Donna. Donna signed that one.

Tamura could be a monster and yawner. Yamaha GC guitars are beautifully made and reliable.

[Bax Burgess]

As far as I've read, the Yamaha GC designation is made in Japan, whereas the CG designation is made in China or possibly another regional source. If you prefer one over the other, whether by experience or some other reason, then there you have it.

[hubcapsc]

I check victork's ebay store often, and have exchanged email
with him once. His ebay address is just an hour or so away
from me, and I wanted to go and check out some of his
guitars. He doesn't have a "brick and mortar" store, though...
He seems on the up-and-up... if you get one of his let us know
how it works out...

-Mike

[Winfred]

Originally Posted by Bax Burgess

As far as I've read, the Yamaha GC designation is made in Japan, whereas the CG designation is made in China or possibly another regional source. If you prefer one over the other, whether by experience or some other reason, then there you have it.

Hi Bax!

Thanks again for great advice. So the Yamaha "CG" is made in China, and the "GC" is made in Japan, so that means Yamaha moved their company to China? So the GC version is better because it is made at the original factory in Japan where there is the original luthiers and building traditions. So are the CG less expensive than the GC, and the GC more superior in quality and materials?

Thanks!
Winfed

[evanpyle]

Originally Posted by Winfred

Hi Bax!

Thanks again for great advice. So the Yamaha "CG" is made in China, and the "GC" is made in Japan, so that means Yamaha moved their company to China? So the GC version is better because it is made at the original factory in Japan where there is the original luthiers and building traditions. So are the CG less expensive than the GC, and the GC more superior in quality and materials?

Thanks!
Winfed

CG means Classical Guitar. GC means Grand Concert. Big difference. I had a GC once and it was very finely made.

[Cincy2]

Winfred,

You are receiving a lot of very good advice. I want to add some commentary on "laminated" guitar sides. This is not a good reason to dismiss a potential instrument. The luthiers who build some of the most expensive and coveted classical and steel string guitars use this technique successfully. The Australians for example have been using this technique for many years. By doubling the sides they reason, the vibrations from the soundboard are not reduced by dissipating in the sides. I don't know much about the physics of this. All I can tell you is that of the six guitars (classical and steel string) that I own the three with doubled sides have the best overall volume, tone, sustain and balance. It could be coincidence but i doubt it.

Cincy

[Winfred]

HI ALL!

THIS IS A NOTICE ABOUT AN HOUR AGO I MADE A PURCHASE. YOU CAN SEE MY TURN OF EVENTS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS THREAD I CREATED EARLIER TODAY!

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=581852

A HUGE THANKS TO ALL OF YOU! YOU ALL WERE A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF MY DECISION.

WITH MY KINDEST REGARDS!
WINFRED