Heavier tuners, guitar balance...

[javierj]

Hello,

Hope everyone is doing great!

I have being reading some threads about the effect on the guitar of heavier tuners/machine heads. At the moment, I am not actually too concerned about what posible things a heavier headstock (due to more mass tuners) could cause to the sound/tone of the guitar, but instead, would like to know what is the negative side of having extra weight on the headstock as far as the overall guitar balance.

I ask because a few years ago I decided I wanted to put some Gotoh Trad Lock locking tuners on my dreadnought guitar. It was a weird crazy thing I did back then, to put locking tuners on an acoustic guitar. I guess I just liked the way I changed strings with locking tuners. Anyway, for quite a while I never thought of replacing these tuners for other non locking ones since they have being working fine. I thought of replacing them recently, but never did it in the end.

I didn't know anything about heavier headstock and guitar balance before, or maybe I read about it, but it never seemed to affect me. Now that I started reading again more about this, I've started getting a little obsessed that my headstock maybe heavier and could probably want to dip the balance into the headstock direction.

Before I never paid attention to this and I have being playing the guitar like this for over 2 years; never noticed anything weird.

For what is worth my tuners that I bought from StewMac says their total weight is: 8.176 ounces compared to some common used tuners used by guitar makers, the Gotoh Midsize 510 which are 7.142 ounces.

So my question is, is it better or do most people try to get the tuners as light as posible? Even if you get the lightest tuners, I think if you rest an acoustic guitar in your lap and you let go for a second, it will srill dip towards the head stock direction. So what real negative things could I experience from heavier tuners?

Thanks a lot!

Regards

Javier

[tadol]

Mass on the headstock can alter the sustain of a guitar. You can experience this by clamping a C clamp to your headstock -

But extra weight on the headstock can make the guitar feel mechanically unbalanced - commonly noticed on 12 strings. The choice of wood for the neck can also have an effect. You will frequently see maple used to increase sustain, but the density of the mahogany used can add or reduce sustain. But an extra ounce of tuner weight is frequently negligible compared to the weight of the back and sides, whether its due to species, or thickness -

[javierj]

Originally Posted by tadol

Mass on the headstock can alter the sustain of a guitar. You can experience this by clamping a C clamp to your headstock -

But extra weight on the headstock can make the guitar feel mechanically unbalanced - commonly noticed on 12 strings. The choice of wood for the neck can also have an effect. You will frequently see maple used to increase sustain, but the density of the mahogany used can add or reduce sustain. But an extra ounce of tuner weight is frequently negligible compared to the weight of the back and sides, whether its due to species, or thickness -

Hello,

Thanks a lot for your reply!

That is correct, maybe since it's just about 1 ounce more of weight with the Gotoh locking tuners, I guess I never felt a ''mechanica balance" weight difference or at least not one enough to make me think something was wrong or that it affected the guitar's mechanical balance in a negavite way. I never thought about it until like 2 years later when I was reading a thread of someone telling someone that if they used certain tuners that it will afect the guitar's mechanical balance, due to the extra weight. That is when I thought that maybe I should check and see if my guitar could have a balance problem, but I guess not, or not one that was too evident.

My 12 string guitar does really feel head stock heavy and I can of course notice it, but I guess in the end if I just forget about it and keep playing, I somehow don't feel it that much.

That was my main concern, to be sure that my regular 6 string, dreadnought guitar is not too heavy on the headstock with the Gotoh Trad wheel locking tuners that it has. Evidentually I will replace this tuners for normal, non locking tuners which would be lighter.

[fazool]

This links to my experience in an NGD post I made.

With a lightweight guitar, I found the extra mass on the end of the neck felt like a lever pushing the headstock down.

On this guitar it really mattered.

[javierj]

So in other words, an ounce more of weight of the locking tuners, should not be enough for the guitar to be out of mechanical balance? I know I own the guitar, but now it seems like I am not sure how to feel it or if I feel it?

Thanks a lot!

[tadol]

I used to have a friend, who claimed he could tell, down to the gram, a full ounce. I never could - I judged solely on quality. I still don’t think I could tell an ounce one way or another, but I still know what I like -

You like locking tuners? Keep the locking tuners -

[javierj]

Originally Posted by tadol

I used to have a friend, who claimed he could tell, down to the gram, a full ounce. I never could - I judged solely on quality. I still don’t think I could tell an ounce one way or another, but I still know what I like -

You like locking tuners? Keep the locking tuners -

Yeah you know, I liked the locking tuners back then, I thought it was a cool thing even on acoustic guitar. Now I guess I would not put locking tuners on a acoustic guitar. But since they are there, I think I would leave them there, since it does not seem like it is afecting the guitar's balance in an important noticeable way. So I guess they will stay there, until I get tired of looking at them and get the money to but some nice open back tuners, hopefully Waverly !

[mercy]

If you want to try open back tuners get Gotoh's. Great quality and less expensive experiment. They are good enough that you may decide to keep them. I dont like open back tuners because they dont work as well as enclosed. Get a set of 510's and be done with it for the rest of your life. Also I dont like locking tuners, it is not that hard to string a guitar and for the extra weight, forget it.