[El McMeen arr] Skye Boat Song (playing critique requested)

[TBman]

This is an arrangement by El McMeen found in his Celtic Guitar Treasures book.

I'm requesting critique of my playing on this one (not recording issues). I know what I hear that I don't like and I would like to know if others hear the same thing. To me my playing sounds like a 4 year old who speaks with a slight lisp. Do you hear this (and other things) or is it just me?

Let me know, so I can improve, otherwise I'm spinning my wheels.

Skye Boat Song, one time through:

[rémy64]

I think it's good Barry, maybe a little too fast.
Do you play while looking at the tab or not?

[cedartop52]

This is VERY subtle....I wonder if what you are hearing is the first note of some measures where the note sounds like it is getting skin contact first, followed by nail contact. It is sort of a brush/pluck sound? Your playing is so far beyond my own skills I hesitate to speculate but I admire the dedication and precision you apply to your playing! Always find your posts informative and inspiring. Dan

[rick-slo]

Basically playing sounds good though a bit hard to tell in detail because the recording sound is not good, but I agree with
Cedartop52 there are fingertip skin scraping sounds to the notes.

[TomB'sox]

I think you are being far too critical of yourself. That is a beautiful song played very well.

Guitar is not fun if you are constantly searching for perfection as it is never there.

[mawmow]

Well, nice arrangement, well played. I have a different one...

As you want positive critiques for personal improvement, I will try some.

First of all, is it a guitar or a recording issue, I find basses too strong by the first half and the melodie notes not clear enough. I would add, it could be a matter of taste : you can play muddy or clearer.

According to my reminding of the version sung by Roger Whittaker, you play a bit too fast : allow the notes to breathe a little more.

By the end, some notes appeared to cut, muffled ?

I would add, I recognize the same little problems my personal teacher finds in my own playing...

Good job anyway !

[TBman]

Thanks everyone.

Playing:
The flesh is the culprit it appears (that and not holding some notes long enough).

And yes, it should be played slower, good point.



Recording:
I think I had the mics in too close. The Scarlett 2i4 has terrible input gain, there really just isn't enough even with the dials at 10. I'll go back to the Zoom H5 too with or without mics for further testing. I do have the mics in closer than a foot usually because I had the idea that low gain and close mics gives me less room noise. That may or may not be true, but I have better tools now to remove the noise so I'll be moving the mics back and pushing the input gain up with the Zoom H5, plus I have another more quiet place to record. I'll have to use it more often.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to listen and comment, I appreciate it.

Tom, yes, I'm my worse critic. I do have to be careful not to suck the fun out of the hobby.

[Wrighty]

Hi Barry

For me the issue is primarily lack of clarity on the notes. I want to hear them ring for longer and sound cleaner before the next one comes in.

I think playing slower and working on getting the tone right (may be a combination of left hand and right hand) might help as it sounds a bit rushed to me.

I suffer the same issues so please don’t take this as a criticism but I don’t think there is anything wrong with looking for a better sound..

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Hi Barry

For me the issue is primarily lack of clarity on the notes. I want to hear them ring for longer and sound cleaner before the next one comes in.

I think playing slower and working on getting the tone right (may be a combination of left hand and right hand) might help as it sounds a bit rushed to me.

I suffer the same issues so please don’t take this as a criticism but I don’t think there is anything wrong with looking for a better sound..

Thanks Peter. I'm going to try using a bit of my nails when I play. I have ProPik Fingertones and other set as well, but I'm not sure how its going to go. They keep hitting each other between my fingers,

Its a work in progress

[Wrighty]

Barry, I do think some nail does a lot to improve tone and clarity (although I know many get a great tone with flesh only)

It may be that the left hand fretting is worth looking at - can you hold the notes longer and let them ring out - this, in particular in open tunings, can make a huge difference. Listen to someone like Steve Baughman and that’s what I hear.

[Dustinfurlow]

I admire the invitation of critique. This is how we grow, from different perspectives and advice from unbiased ears. Take mine with a grain of salt, though. I give this a 9/10, the only thing I'm wishing for is a bit more "space" and maybe performed just a hair slower. This is something I often struggle with, when I think I've done a good job on a recording I will listen a week later with fresh ears and think "wow I was playing like I couldn't wait for the tune to be over..." so savor it and let it breathe as it should and your translation will connect more with the listener, I think. Just my $0.02!

Btw, a nice thing to do to soften/smooth the fingertips (which will lessen the finger noise in previous comments) is get some Woodworking mesh papers, anywhere from 6000-12,000 grit will make your fingertips probably 75% quieter. I have had to do this for my left hand recently and it makes a perceptible difference. Just gets rid of built-up ridges from callouses that sound nasty on fingerstyle recordings. Best to do this after drying off after a shower when the skin is softest.

Enjoy!

[elmcmeen]

Originally Posted by TBman

This is an arrangement by El McMeen found in his Celtic Guitar Treasures book.

I'm requesting critique of my playing on this one (not recording issues). I know what I hear that I don't like and I would like to know if others hear the same thing. To me my playing sounds like a 4 year old who speaks with a slight lisp. Do you hear this (and other things) or is it just me?

Let me know, so I can improve, otherwise I'm spinning my wheels.

Skye Boat Song, one time through:

Thanks for playing my arrangement of this beautiful song.

As you internalize this piece, the playing will come more naturally.
Don't worry about it, or get too introspective or self-critical about it.
Remember that for every electric-guitarist kid in a music store who thinks he's the second coming of Joe Satriani, there is an acoustic guitarist who feels unworthy because he can't do what some other guy can.

A few points:

1. This is a VERY difficult piece to pull off. It's all about phrasing and vibe, and the guitarist is VERY exposed. That's true for a lot of my arrangements, as we exist to honor the music, rather than vice-versa.

2. Incorporating slurs in the music, and hammers-on where the note is not plucked by the picking hand, will smooth things out for you, and will temper the staccato effect that is, I suspect, what is bothering you a bit.

3. If as you play you pretend you are in a gently rocking boat, you will be able to capture and apply the vibe of the song.

4. The other comments made are helpful, too, and encouraging. It's always difficult to play someone else's arrangement to one's satisfaction, always comparing it with the original. I never could capture Renbourn's touch on his arrangement of Mist-Covered Mtns of Home, so I ended up doing it may own way, and John didn't mind.

5. Keep doing what you are doing.

El

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Dustinfurlow

I admire the invitation of critique. This is how we grow, from different perspectives and advice from unbiased ears. Take mine with a grain of salt, though. I give this a 9/10, the only thing I'm wishing for is a bit more "space" and maybe performed just a hair slower. This is something I often struggle with, when I think I've done a good job on a recording I will listen a week later with fresh ears and think "wow I was playing like I couldn't wait for the tune to be over..." so savor it and let it breathe as it should and your translation will connect more with the listener, I think. Just my $0.02!

Btw, a nice thing to do to soften/smooth the fingertips (which will lessen the finger noise in previous comments) is get some Woodworking mesh papers, anywhere from 6000-12,000 grit will make your fingertips probably 75% quieter. I have had to do this for my left hand recently and it makes a perceptible difference. Just gets rid of built-up ridges from callouses that sound nasty on fingerstyle recordings. Best to do this after drying off after a shower when the skin is softest.

Enjoy!

Thanks Dustin!

Originally Posted by elmcmeen

Thanks for playing my arrangement of this beautiful song.

As you internalize this piece, the playing will come more naturally.
Don't worry about it, or get too introspective or self-critical about it.
Remember that for every electric-guitarist kid in a music store who thinks he's the second coming of Joe Satriani, there is an acoustic guitarist who feels unworthy because he can't do what some other guy can.

A few points:

1. This is a VERY difficult piece to pull off. It's all about phrasing and vibe, and the guitarist is VERY exposed. That's true for a lot of my arrangements, as we exist to honor the music, rather than vice-versa.

2. Incorporating slurs in the music, and hammers-on where the note is not plucked by the picking hand, will smooth things out for you, and will temper the staccato effect that is, I suspect, what is bothering you a bit.

3. If as you play you pretend you are in a gently rocking boat, you will be able to capture and apply the vibe of the song.

4. The other comments made are helpful, too, and encouraging. It's always difficult to play someone else's arrangement to one's satisfaction, always comparing it with the original. I never could capture Renbourn's touch on his arrangement of Mist-Covered Mtns of Home, so I ended up doing it may own way, and John didn't mind.

5. Keep doing what you are doing.

El

El, thanks for taking the time to listen and offering advise, I appreciate it! I'll keep working at it.

[elmcmeen]

My pleasure.

El

[SprintBob]

Nice job on this Barry with empathy from another struggling fingerstyle player but still moving the ball down the field. My knee jerk impression was that you were pushing the pace of the song too, as if you wanted to get it over with. I believe that is normal when we have an arrangement memorized and are starting to polish the presentation so the advice to throttle back a bit and enjoy the ride is spot on. I learned some new things to think about so thanks for getting this one up.