Which Microphone or Pair + Audio Interface?

[iim7V7IM7]

Hi,

I have some very basic, but reasonable fidelity home recording equipment questions:

Instruments to be Recorded: Acoustic Flattop, Archtop and Gypsy
Style: Acoustic jazz chord melody (plectrum & fingers)
Room: Wood floor, 10' x 20" one side large windows others plaster
Computer: iMac with Firewire or USB
Software: Garageband

I just want to be able to make home recordings of my solo play and be able to capture the natural acoustic tones of my instruments to share with others. I know close to nothing other than I need to buy a small or medium diaphragm condenser microphone (or pair?) and an audio interface with decent preamps. I don't have preset budget as of this point. I am interested in ease of use.

What microphone or pair (don't know the pros and cons of stereo vs. mono) and audio interfaces would you suggest for my application?

Popular Microphones I see used from reading online:

Audio-Technica AT4022 ($350)
AKG C 451 B ($500) or a AKG C 451 B Stereo Pair ($1,100)
Rodes NT5 ($430)
Shure SM81 ($350)

Audio Interfaces I see used from reading online:

Apogee Duet ($600)
Focusrite Forte ($500)
RME Babyface ($750)

Advice is welcome...

Thanks,

Bob

[ljguitar]

Hi Bob...

I prefer a pair of individual microphones to a stereo mic. More flexibility. If I can only buy one pair, it will consist of one large diaphragm (26mm), multi-pattern microphone, and on medium diaphragm (20mm) microphone. That way I can set up mid side, A/B, or coincident patterns, and experiment with different arrays.

If you are just getting your feet wet with digital recording, you have a learning curve ahead of you which can take some time. I suggest going to some home recording forums and lurking. They are often filled with snobs, but often have someone with great information for newbies.

Audio-Techica has a $500 package (AT4040SP 40 Series Studio Pack) consisting of AT-4040 and AT-4041 microphones plus all the clips, mounts, hangers etc. I'm sure other companies have similar packages.

I was surprised how good the CAD, MXR, AudioTechnia, Rode, Behringer and AKG's consumer line of condensers in the $150-300 range sound. When people used to come to our studio, they'd often bring mics they'd been using at home, so I'd plug them in and try them out. Most were more than up to the task for home studio recording.

My interface is a MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) Ultralite mk3 which permits up to 12 inputs, has a pair of great preamps built in, and works with any common recording software. The current iteration (the Ultralite hybrid) is firewire and/or USB-3 compatible.

I use Logic Pro X as my software, and garage band is a good way to get your feet wet. Software is something fun to grow into.

Hope you end up with mics & interface which capture 'you' to your liking...

[iim7V7IM7]

Larry,

Thanks as always for chiming in. It sounds like you are recommending a two microphone approach vs. a single, small diaphragm cardoid with the capsule pointed at the body/neck junction about 12-18" from the instrument. I have always heard this was preferred, but I did not know how complex it was to deal with phase/timing issues. What is a good starting microphone configuration (e.g. One pointed toward the sound hole/ f-hole and the other toward the neck)? Which would you use the large diaphragm for vs. the small diaphragm?

I did see the Audio-Technica AT4040 Studio Pack ($550) that you mentioned (thank you). It looks like a relative bargain compared to what is out there. Regarding the audio interface, I was looking for something with 2-inputs, high quality preamps, good AtoD and an easy user interface. The MOTU looks as if it is a more complex/capable Audio Interface.

:-)

Bob

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Bob...

I prefer a pair of individual microphones to a stereo mic. More flexibility. If I can only buy one pair, it will consist of one large diaphragm (26mm), multi-pattern microphone, and on medium diaphragm (20mm) microphone. That way I can set up mid side, A/B, or coincident patterns, and experiment with different arrays.

If you are just getting your feet wet with digital recording, you have a learning curve ahead of you which can take some time. I suggest going to some home recording forums and lurking. They are often filled with snobs, but often have someone with great information for newbies.

Audio-Techica has a $500 package (AT4040SP 40 Series Studio Pack) consisting of AT-4040 and AT-4041 microphones plus all the clips, mounts, hangers etc. I'm sure other companies have similar packages.

I was surprised how good the CAD, MXR, AudioTechnia, Rode, Behringer and AKG's consumer line of condensers in the $150-300 range sound. When people used to come to our studio, they'd often bring mics they'd been using at home, so I'd plug them in and try them out. Most were more than up to the task for home studio recording.

My interface is a MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn) Ultralite mk3 which permits up to 12 inputs, has a pair of great preamps built in, and works with any common recording software. The current iteration (the Ultralite hybrid) is firewire and/or USB-3 compatible.

I use Logic Pro X as my software, and garage band is a good way to get your feet wet. Software is something fun to grow into.

Hope you end up with mics & interface which capture 'you' to your liking...

[ChuckS]

I do a minimal amount of home recording; mainly solo acoustic guitar.

Equipment has evolved but what I use now includes:
For mics I have:
Two ADK A6's. ($200 each including shock mount, cables)
Oktava MC-012 ($125 a long time ago)
Cascade Fathead ribbon ($150 a while ago)

Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 interface (2 preamps, 2 line inputs) $225
Event EMP-1 preamp (bought a long time ago)
Reaper for the DAW

This equipment is plenty good for what I do, especially considering I haven't done anything for room treatment.

[Bob Womack]

There are a lot of great mics in your price range. You should know that mic selection is as subjective as guitar selection. You'll be hard pressed to find any consensus at all.

With that said, I've always loved the AKG 451Es, since I started working with them back in 1980. I eventually bought myself a couple of the new 451Bs and have been very happy with them. I've settled on using them in what is basically a pair turned vertically for a balanced tonal spectrum spread widely across the speakers:



It works quite nicely. More about my 451Bs HERE.

Bob

[sdelsolray]

First, at the risk of complicating your studio build, I would add five things to your list (## 3-7) below.

1) Mics;
2) Interface;
3) Room treatment;
4) Nearfield monitors;
5) Headphones;
6) Mic stands, cabling; and
7) Studio table.

Perhaps you already have some of the additional items. Perhaps not. Still, these items are needed for a functional studio space.

Second, what is your overall budget?

Third, once the complete list of items needed is established, and you overall budget is set, then we can talk about individual items such as particular mics.

[iim7V7IM7]

I already own excellent nearfield monitors (Neumann KH120s), In-ear monitors (Westone 4R), Headphones (AKG K702) and a headphone amp (Grace m903). My computer desk serves as a "studio table" is adjacent to my playing area.

I knew that I would need mic stand(s) and cable(s) along with the microphones and an audio interface. I am hoping I can achieve satisfactory recordings without going into acoustic treatment. The room is a home office/guitar room.

Hope that helps...

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

First, at the risk of complicating your studio build, I would add five things to your list (## 3-7) below.

1) Mics;
2) Interface;
3) Room treatment;
4) Nearfield monitors;
5) Headphones;
6) Mic stands, cabling; and
7) Studio table.

Perhaps you already have some of the additional items. Perhaps not. Still, these items are needed for a functional studio space.

Second, what is your overall budget?

Third, once the complete list of items needed is established, and you overall budget is set, then we can talk about individual items such as particular mics.

[iim7V7IM7]

Thanks Bob...

Everyone seems to always recommend a stereo pair of 451Bs (I am sure that they are great!). $1,100 is a bit tough for me to swallow at the moment, given the fact that I need an audio interface, dynamic mic for my cabs, mic stands, cables etc. Larry's recommendation might be more in line with my budget or a pair of SM81s etc.

I see folks use the V pattern (capsules pointed at each other) at the 12th fret or one pointed at the 12th fret and the other at the bridge. Is one technique easier in an uncontrolled environment?

:-)

Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

There are a lot of great mics in your price range. You should know that mic selection is as subjective as guitar selection. You'll be hard pressed to find any consensus at all.

With that said, I've always loved the AKG 451Es, since I started working with them back in 1980. I eventually bought myself a couple of the new 451Bs and have been very happy with them. I've settled on using them in what is basically a pair turned vertically for a balanced tonal spectrum spread widely across the speakers:



It works quite nicely. More about my 451Bs HERE.

Bob

[Larpy]

As a fellow audiophile and Mac user, I can recommend the Apogee Duet. I upgraded to a Duet from the $200 level M-Audio and Alesis interfaces and the jump in quality was significant. With careful recording with decent mics (I use a pair of Pelusos), the results approach pro quality.

[islandguitar]

Regarding acoustic treatment....take a look at Fran Guidry's Homebrewed Recording web site. Under tutorials, you'll see a blog/video on making two acoustic panels of Corning 703 that are portable and able to be used for help in this regard. Might be something that would fit your budget and circumstances.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

I see folks use the V pattern (capsules pointed at each other) at the 12th fret or one pointed at the 12th fret and the other at the bridge. Is one technique easier in an uncontrolled environment?

Mic positioning is a whole art, and there are lots of options. This "vertical ORTF" is somewhat unusual, tho not unheard of. You'll want to experiment with X/Y (what you're calling a "V pattern"), ORTF, spaced pairs, and others. Each has different pros and cons, or maybe more correctly just sound different, and all are used successfully. A search on the web will turn up any number of tutorials on mic placement that should get you started. There's no right or wrong, and I'm not sure there's any "easier" to any of them, just what you like and what works for you. I usually use spaced pairs in an untreated room for my You Tube videos, so you could take that as one possible example, but the placement is mostly chosen to stay out of the line of sight in the video as much as possible.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

I see folks use the V pattern (capsules pointed at each other) at the 12th fret or one pointed at the 12th fret and the other at the bridge. Is one technique easier in an uncontrolled environment?
Bob

I used the spaced pair in order to get more spread between the speakers. X-Y pairs only spread the sound field from speaker to speaker. If you want an apparently wider sound stage you'll want to spread the mics. The big caveat is that you have to check mono compatibility to make sure that you aren't causing significant phase cancellation. I startedd with overlapping capsules and moved out to the 7" capsule spacing of the ORTF system but kept the mics pointing at each other. The array was pointed at the 12th fret as a single mic would be. I've used that for both album recordings and scores at this point.

Oh, and I've used it both in a clean recording studio and a less-controlled environment as well. But mic technique is just as subjective as mic choice.

Bob

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7

I already own excellent nearfield monitors (Neumann KH120s), In-ear monitors (Westone 4R), Headphones (AKG K702) and a headphone amp (Grace m903). My computer desk serves as a "studio table" is adjacent to my playing area.

I knew that I would need mic stand(s) and cable(s) along with the microphones and an audio interface. I am hoping I can achieve satisfactory recordings without going into acoustic treatment. The room is a home office/guitar room.

Hope that helps...

That's some excellent gear. The Grace may be overkill for a home studio, but there are other uses for it too.

On to an interface and mics.

Your studio design is for two simultaneous input channels. You've already identified some of the better two channel interfaces. I don't have much experience with the newer interfaces. In some ways one would be as good as another. The feature set is certainly important. For example, is there zero latency monitoring? Are the line inputs true line inputs (or are they run through the mic preamp circuit with just a -20 dB pad)?

As to mics, on the one hand, there are many many mics that would likely work very well. On the other hand, there are likely a several mics that would work even better for your situation and aesthetics. If you're interested in chasing the later possibility, the problem is how to find those mics. The only way I know is to try enough different mics out over enough time to learn about them. That can require purchase and many years of time.

Still, you need to get a pair now to get going. The list you provided is a good start. However, I have either owned or used those mics except I've only used pairs of the AT 4041 and 4051, and I believe there are better choices, albeit some are at a higher cost. Here's a short list:

1) Oktava MC-012 w/ cardioid SD capsules (Joly modded) ($700 pair new);
2) 3 Zigma CHI w/ cardioid or hypercardioid SD capsules ($900 new, perhaps less);
3) Neumann KM184 (used) ($1,050 to $1,200);
4) Mircotech Gefell M300 (used) ($1,200 to $1,400).

As to room treatment, I suspect you will be fighting flutter echo and some room resonance and anti-resonance issues. The later can be mitigated if you can find a spot in the room to record at which mitigates them, but you won't know if you can do this until you spend quite a bit of time experimenting with this. Spending some $$ on six or eight 2' x 4' x 4" bass traps (Dow Corning 703 in wood frames with burlap covers) is not a big investment (particularly if you make them yourself). In addition, not all of them need to be semi-permanantly mounted on walls, ceilings or in corners. Some can be pulled out when you are recording a placed in appropriate places. In any event, don't underestimate the improvement you will likely obtain from decent room treatment.

[iim7V7IM7]

What about:

A matched pair of Peluso CEMC6 ($700)

or

2 - Shure SM81s ($700)

[islandguitar]

might also consider a pair of Shure KSM 137's......good reviews ( I own one) and a bit below your SM81 pair in price.