#1
|
|||
|
|||
000-12 or OM?
I will be having a new build by Tahoe Guitars starting in the next couple of weeks. I am trying to decide between a 000-12 and an OM (it is currently listed as a 000-12 in my sig), and I'm having a tough time deciding. The guitar will be Carpathian Spruce over Madagascar Rosewood, curly maple neck, 25.4" scale.
My thoughts so far: I see a 000-12 as having a bit more bass due to the slightly longer body, and more overall warmth ("snuggle") due to the 12-fret configuration. A 000-12 is my favorite guitar from aesthetic and ergonomic points of view. An OM would have a a bit less bass, and more overall snap ("bark") due to the 14-fret configuration. I love OMs and consider them (along with SJs) to be the most utilitarian of guitars. A good OM is just a wonderful thing to experience. I suppose Madi RW will tend to be strong on bass, so it seems an OM would have the potential to be a bit more balanced. The last few Tahoe OMs Larry has built have a particularly open tonal quality. Any input you wish to give is invited. Have I missed something obvious? Yes...I have been discussing this with Larry. Just looking for other input. Thanks!
__________________
Martin 00-18G; Waterloo WL-S; Furch: V1 OOM-SR, Green G-SR, Blue OM-CM; Tahoe Guitar Co.: OM (Adi/Hog), 000-12 (Carp/FG Mahog), 00-12 (Carp/Sinker Mahog), 00-14 (Adi/Ovangkol); In the night you hide from the madman You're longing to be But it all comes out on the inside Eventually |
#2
|
||||
|
||||
A couple of thoughts ... if you're committed to the curly maple neck, depending on the species of wood, the 12-fret model might have a better physical balance (i.e. not neck heavy). I know sound is your first concern, as it should be, but it's food for thought. Also ... I personally don't find that Madagascar rosewood adds bass to the equation, but different builders can sometimes pull different tonalities out of the same wood.
__________________
David Wren |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
You seem like you have a great argument for a 13 fretter. And I don't mean to be glib, I am a BIG fan of the 13 fretter; I mean a body length between the two standards, about 20" long.
|
#4
|
||||
|
||||
What music will you be playing? That answer should help you decide.
__________________
Chuck 2012 Carruth 12-fret 000 in Pernambuco and Adi 2010 Poling Sierra in Cuban Mahogany and Lutz 2015 Posch 13-fret 00 in Indian Rosewood and Adi |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
A 13 fret fanned fret?
|
#6
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The particular Carpathian top I've chosen is very light and very strong (it rings very nicely, as well), so I would expect very good dynamic range out of this one. Thanks for your input, everyone!
__________________
Martin 00-18G; Waterloo WL-S; Furch: V1 OOM-SR, Green G-SR, Blue OM-CM; Tahoe Guitar Co.: OM (Adi/Hog), 000-12 (Carp/FG Mahog), 00-12 (Carp/Sinker Mahog), 00-14 (Adi/Ovangkol); In the night you hide from the madman You're longing to be But it all comes out on the inside Eventually |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
It's going to be an OM. I want this guitar to be as utilitarian as possible. We shall see if the curly maple neck is workable.
Thanks again for your input!!!
__________________
Martin 00-18G; Waterloo WL-S; Furch: V1 OOM-SR, Green G-SR, Blue OM-CM; Tahoe Guitar Co.: OM (Adi/Hog), 000-12 (Carp/FG Mahog), 00-12 (Carp/Sinker Mahog), 00-14 (Adi/Ovangkol); In the night you hide from the madman You're longing to be But it all comes out on the inside Eventually |
#8
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
1) The relative weight of a sugar maple neck vs. a mahogany neck and the balance of the guitar. 2) The mechanical stability of a maple neck vs. a mahogany neck. I understand the aesthetic lure of maple on a maple body but I think it is worth having a talk about these two aspects before deciding. My $.02
__________________
A bunch of nice archtops, flattops, a gypsy & nylon strings… |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Thanks for the tip. This conversation with my luthier is in progress. I may indeed opt for a couple of curly maple lams in a primarily mahogany five-piece neck.
__________________
Martin 00-18G; Waterloo WL-S; Furch: V1 OOM-SR, Green G-SR, Blue OM-CM; Tahoe Guitar Co.: OM (Adi/Hog), 000-12 (Carp/FG Mahog), 00-12 (Carp/Sinker Mahog), 00-14 (Adi/Ovangkol); In the night you hide from the madman You're longing to be But it all comes out on the inside Eventually |
#10
|
||||
|
||||
What Bruce said! In the last few years, I have made the thirteen-frets-to-body configuration the standard, default way I build my 0, 00, and 000 size guitars. To me (and a good number of appreciative clients) this is an ideal compromise between the extra reach of a 14-fretter, and the gorgeous, rich tone you often get with a great 12-fretter. It's the best of both worlds, I think.
__________________
Edwinson |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Quote:
We calculated the density of three examples of curly eastern maple (likely Red Maple and/or Sugar Maple). The densities ranged from 36 lb/cu. ft to 42 lb/cu ft. Examples of Honduran Mahogany ranged from 36 lb/cu ft. to 38 lb/cu ft. So, based on these examples, we have a maximum of (42 - 36)/36 = 16.7% additional weight for maple compared to mahogany. Larry happens to have three complete necks (sans tuners and frets). We weighed the necks with the lightest tuners (Gotoh open back) he had. We then weighed an ebony fretboard, headplate, trussrod and the tuners. These parts sans neck accounted for 65% to 70% of the full neck weight. That is, the primary portion of the neck would account for 30% to 35% of the total neck weight. These percentages would be more if lighter woods such as EIR were used. I will be using ebony. We did not include fret weight in our calculations, but this would further reduce these percentages. So, assuming the the largest percentage for the neck weight and the maximum additional weight percentage for the maple, we have .167 x .35 = .0585 = 5.85% difference in weight due to using the maple. A big effect on neck weight and balance would be the choice of tuners. There was 80 grams difference between the Gotoh open backs and a set of Grover Rotomatics. All of this weight is at the end of the neck. Larry and I carefully examined the maple neck stock and found it to drift off quarter on one end. There were also some cosmetic inconsistencies on the quartered faces. Given the inherently less stable nature of curly wood, I decided to go with a mahogany/curly maple/walnut five-piece neck. The maple lams will be 1/4 inch each, set on either side of a 1/8 inch center lam of walnut. Anyway, an interesting study of some examples of neck woods. Again, I appreciate everyone's input.
__________________
Martin 00-18G; Waterloo WL-S; Furch: V1 OOM-SR, Green G-SR, Blue OM-CM; Tahoe Guitar Co.: OM (Adi/Hog), 000-12 (Carp/FG Mahog), 00-12 (Carp/Sinker Mahog), 00-14 (Adi/Ovangkol); In the night you hide from the madman You're longing to be But it all comes out on the inside Eventually |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
Quote:
__________________
David Wren |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
Very hard to choose between a 000-12 and an OM. It is truly one of those situations where you can't go wrong either way. One of my Brondels is a kind-of OM, and I've found that the combination of Carpathian spruce and Madagascar rosewood really brings out the bass (as compared to another Brondel model A-2c I own that is Adirondack and mahogany). I look forward to your build thread!
__________________
Circa OM-30/34 (Adi/Mad) | 000-12 (Ger/Maple) | OM-28 (Adi/Brz) | OM-18/21 (Adi/Hog) | OM-42 (Adi/Braz) Fairbanks SJ (Adi/Hog) | Schoenberg/Klepper 000-12c (Adi/Hog) | LeGeyt CLM (Swiss/Amzn) | LeGeyt CLM (Carp/Koa) Brondel A-2 (Carp/Mad) |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
neck wood
My guess is two-fold. First, the tuners will probably make a bigger difference in the balance of the neck than the choice of wood in this case. MRW is not particularly light and I suspect it will act as something of a counter weight to the slight additional weight the maple has. If it were a mahogany body, that might be different. Secondly, if you decide to go with a 13 fretter, the weight of it all will matter even less, everything being closer to the fulcrum, so to speak.
Curly maple will make a distinctive neck and should look really good. I have a couple of maple-necked (not curly, unfortunately) guitars and feel they balance just fine.
__________________
The Bard Rocks Fay OM Sinker Redwood/Tiger Myrtle Sexauer L00 Adk/Magnolia For Sale Hatcher Jumbo Bearclaw/"Bacon" Padauk Goodall Jumbo POC/flamed Mahogany Appollonio 12 POC/Myrtle MJ Franks Resonator, all Australian Blackwood Goodman J45 Lutz/fiddleback Mahogany Blackbird "Lucky 13" - carbon fiber '31 National Duolian + many other stringed instruments. |