Question about X/Y recording with two matched mics

Gypsyblue · #1 04-20-2011, 11:59 AM

I know - I should be asking these questions on some recording or gear forum. It's just that I like you guys better and have been given some great advice here.

So: when using two mics aimed at the 12th fret or 14th fret or the neck joint of an acoustic guitar, do you use two mic stands each with their own shock mount? Or can it be done with one mic stand and the right shock mount that holds two mics and allows them to be adjusted for the X/Y configuration?

What should I get for two Oktava MK-012 mics?

Gypsyblue · #2 04-20-2011, 12:05 PM

Is something like this, with a couple of swivel adapters, what I need?

http://www.oktava-shop.com/view_prod.php?id=186

http://www.oktava-shop.com/view_prod.php?id=187

bobby b · #3 04-20-2011, 12:06 PM

Dont know if this is still available, but can be easily DIY'd

http://crownaudio.com/pdf/legacy/130722.pdf

Gypsyblue · #4 04-20-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobby b

Dont know if this is still available, but can be easily DIY'd

http://crownaudio.com/pdf/legacy/130722.pdf

Aha! So that's what this is for: http://www.oktava-shop.com/view_prod.php?id=30

Many thanks! Probably just the info I needed.

celticguitar666 · #5 04-20-2011, 01:32 PM

Interesting device I will keep that one in mind! I usually use a my Rode pointed at the neck on one boom and an one of my Oktava m319's for the sound hole on a second boom and blend them and maybe a third for the room. I find that easier to able to adjust the distances depending on how heavy handed the player is, they compliment each nicely and I get a wider stereo field to play with.. segue, Did You ever tell a player play your loudest passage for me so it won't clip the digital recorder and they always blow past that in the actual session? I learned my lesson so it doesn't happen anymore but I always found that curious
Dwight

alohachris · #6 04-20-2011, 06:12 PM

Aloha Goldenbird,

Most good music stores carry those dual mic bars w/ swivel adaptors for X-Y or ORTFF miking. They are commonly available. Of course, you can spend lots or little on those. When choosing, select one that doesn't transfer vibrations to your mic's. The one's that allow you to slide the swivels offer more options & are more $.

Same for the mic stand. I've been using the same X-Y bar for over 30 years! Works great. But my mic stand is shock absorbent.

Good Luck!

alohachriis

sdelsolray · #7 04-20-2011, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldenbird

I know - I should be asking these questions on some recording or gear forum. It's just that I like you guys better and have been given some great advice here.

So: when using two mics aimed at the 12th fret or 14th fret or the neck joint of an acoustic guitar, do you use two mic stands each with their own shock mount? Or can it be done with one mic stand and the right shock mount that holds two mics and allows them to be adjusted for the X/Y configuration?

What should I get for two Oktava MK-012 mics?

Two mic stands offer the most flexibility although it takes an extra moment to set them up. If you want to use just one mic stand for XY and ORTF, the mounts other posters have identified will do that. I like the Shure A27M. Here's a link:

Shure A27M Mic Mount

Gypsyblue · #8 04-21-2011, 10:33 AM

Thanks guys! I knew I'd get the right answers here.

IainDearg · #9 04-22-2011, 05:03 AM

Yep, any which way. I use a bar on one stand.

All my recordings are done X/Y since I can be sure of a solid stereo image and I don't have to think about phase cancellation. It can sound a little tight and narrow so sometimes I add a little stereo width after-the-fact.

If I had money to buy different mics I might try mid-side. But I don't.

Cheers!

Bob Womack · #10 04-22-2011, 10:19 AM

I find the clutter of two stands to be cumbersome to some of the people I record, so I typically work with a single stand and a stereo bar. Of course, when I've found myself without a bar, I've gone with a pair of stands. Flexibility!

Bob

Gypsyblue · #11 04-25-2011, 11:13 PM

I'm looking for a good buy on another used Oktava MK-012. I already have one, had it modded by Michael Jolly, and it sounds truly great to me and to everyone I've demonstrated it to.

I'd like to get another to use for stereo recording in a X/Y configuration. I know it's best to get two factory matched mics and I've been told that if I use two of the same model that are not factory matched that there might be as much as a 1 db difference between the two.

Or, I might luck out and get two that are really close or that actually do match. Seems like the factory matched sets are only guaranteed to be within less than a 1db difference anyway.

I guess I'm asking what my chances are of picking up a second one that will match my first one or come close enough to sound good. And if they don't quite match, if I can simply boost the recording level a little on one to make them match.

Michael told me that he could not make them match with the mod that he does. He said matched mics would have factory matched capsules and the mod he does doesn't involve the capsules.

Thanks! GB

K-vegas · #12 04-26-2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

I find the clutter of two stands to be cumbersome to some of the people I record, so I typically work with a single stand and a stereo bar. Of course, when I've found myself without a bar, I've gone with a pair of stands. Flexibility!

Bob

It seems one advantage of using one stand is that is makes it easier to reposition the mics without upsetting the x/y orientation. Handy for testing mic positions while listening thru headphones.

K-vegas · #13 04-26-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goldenbird

I guess I'm asking what my chances are of picking up a second one that will match my first one or come close enough to sound good. And if they don't quite match, if I can simply boost the recording level a little on one to make them match.

I've noticed slightly uneven track volumes using two 'same model' mics. The mic aimed towards bridge/body picks up a bit more sound than the other. I'm not sure perfectly matched mic's would change that. I do like the result of x/y tho.

Gypsyblue · #14 04-27-2011, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-vegas

I've noticed slightly uneven track volumes using two 'same model' mics. The mic aimed towards bridge/body picks up a bit more sound than the other. I'm not sure perfectly matched mic's would change that. I do like the result of x/y tho.

I've noticed that with the Zoom H4. Since both mics in the Zoom H4 are pointed in different directions, what they pickup is a little different. Maybe factory matching isn't as big a deal as I'm worried about. Maybe to high quality mics of the same model will be close enough for a hack like me. Thanks! GB

moon · #15 04-27-2011, 07:10 AM

I've never experimented with this but I'm guessing that all that would happen would be a subtle widening of the stereo image. If one mic is a touch louder (or quieter) in a given frequency band this range of frequencies would be panned farther out from the centre of the stereo image. It wouldn't be a perfectly accurate XY recording but it might not really matter.