Capos and alternate tunings

220volt · #1 03-15-2010, 05:39 PM

To me alternate tuning capos are not what they seem or claim to be. They will not replace alternate tunings whatsoever. At least I haven't find a way to do it.
They're great if you want to experiment, but none of them will give you true alternate tuning. Maybe only on open strings, but as soon as you start playing chords, you will have to reach behind capo in order to sound chord correctly. Becasue strings that are not capoed will still be behind the capo, while capoed strings will be in front.

Am I worng here or am I missing something?

ljguitar · #2 03-15-2010, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220volt

To me alternate tuning capos are not what they seem or claim to be. They will not replace alternate tunings whatsoever. At least I haven't find a way to do it.
They're great if you want to experiment, but none of them will give you true alternate tuning. Maybe only on open strings, but as soon as you start playing chords, you will have to reach behind capo in order to sound chord correctly. Becasue strings that are not capoed will still be behind the capo, while capoed strings will be in front.

Am I worng here or am I missing something?

Hi 220…
Not wrong, but though they are a bit limited, they are not limiting. They can bring a great new feel to the music quickly.

And they do affect the style of the songs. Some players add them on top of alternate tunings to control the open strings for a more linear style of playing with the proper 'bass' notes under their 'thumb'.

walternewton · #3 03-15-2010, 05:59 PM

You're certainly correct that partial capoing won't/can't give you the same results as a true alternate tuning...nevertheless many people find the "middle ground" they provide musically useful and fun to experiment with - I've even seen players who use multiple partial capos at the same time placed at various points up the neck.

The fact that the guitar behaves as it does in standard tuning when dealing with non-open strings can be looked at as a pro as well as a con, since all the closed position scales/chords/licks you know all still work...

There's a pretty good introductory article about partial capoing here.

220volt · #4 03-15-2010, 06:06 PM

Thanks for the advices LJand Walter.

Yeah, I agree. It does give you lots of room for experimentation. I just find it very sneaky when manufacturers use misleading statements regarding partial capos.

ljguitar · #5 03-15-2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220volt

Thanks for the advices LJand Walter.

Yeah, I agree. It does give you lots of room for experimentation. I just find it very sneaky when manufacturers use misleading statements regarding partial capos.

Hi 220…
Well it does provide the intervals of other tunings when the strings are open, but if you have not retuned, everything above the capo can still be barred normally.

I use the Esus version to simulate DADGAD for some songs I've ported over from DADGAD or CGCGCD to keep from having to retune for one or two pieces in an evening program - especially in a setting where we have limited time on stage.

DupleMeter · #6 03-15-2010, 06:22 PM

Yeah - I see them more as a texture thing. They really aren't an alternate tuning per se, but much like an alternate tuning they change the way you approach the instrument and music.

I've hacked a bunch of my Shubbs to miss some strings while grabbing others. They don't replace alternate tunings, but they add another dimension to my playing.

220volt · #7 03-15-2010, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi 220…
Well it does provide the intervals of other tunings when the strings are open, but if you have not retuned, everything above the capo can still be barred normally.

I use the Esus version to simulate DADGAD for some songs I've ported over from DADGAD or CGCGCD to keep from having to retune for one or two pieces in an evening program - especially in a setting where we have limited time on stage.

I got the same Esus capo from shubb (CB7) the other day, but I could not play DADGAD songs with it. I wanted to play Al Peteway's Sligo Creek without having to retun it, but I could not do it with that capo. It requires me to reach behind it. How do you play DADGAD stuff with Esus capo?

Thanks

Doug Young · #8 03-15-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220volt

I got the same Esus capo from shubb (CB7) the other day, but I could not play DADGAD songs with it. I wanted to play Al Peteway's Sligo Creek without having to retun it, but I could not do it with that capo. It requires me to reach behind it. How do you play DADGAD stuff with Esus capo?

Thanks

You can't play a song that was written for real DADGAD with a "DADGAD" partial capo (at least not unless you just get lucky and the tune happens to fall right). The ESus/DADGAD capo gives you the sound of DADGAD on the open strings, which is why they call it that. You can do some things with it that resemble DADGAD, but mostly you should think of it as a tool that gives you new things to explore that you can't do in *either* DADGAD or standard tuning.

220volt · #9 03-15-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Young

You can't play a song that was written for real DADGAD with a "DADGAD" partial capo (at least not unless you just get lucky and the tune happens to fall right). The ESus/DADGAD capo gives you the sound of DADGAD on the open strings, which is why they call it that. You can do some things with it that resemble DADGAD, but mostly you should think of it as a tool that gives you new things to explore that you can't do in *either* DADGAD or standard tuning.

That's what I though so far until Larry said

Quote:

I use the Esus version to simulate DADGAD for some songs I've ported over from DADGAD or CGCGCD to keep from having to retune for one or two pieces in an evening program

I think I just misread it.

Thanks

Doug Young · #10 03-15-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220volt

That's what I though so far until Larry said

Well, you could also "port" a tune from DADGAD to standard tuning, with a bit of work. It sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. There are probably quite a few DADGAD tunes you could find a way to play using a Esus capo, but you can't just read the tab and have it work. You'll have to make some adjustments, but at least with the partial capo, you have the open strings in the right intervals. If you think about it, there's simply no way any capo can truly retune a guitar and change all your chord shapes to those of an alternate tuning.

ljguitar · #11 03-15-2010, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220volt

...That's what I though so far until Larry said
...I think I just misread it.
...Thanks

Hi 220 (and Doug)…
You didn't misread it, I understated it.

When I say I ported over some DADGAD and CGCGCD tunes to Esus capo use, more accurately it would be called adapting them. Spindrift (Al Petteway) works quite well with minor adjustments, as do several of my tunes.

I keep the melody intact, and chord structures in place, and some of the harmonies. But they are not note-for-note adaptations.

Actually I ended up liking some of the things in the capoed adaptations and carried them back to the originals...

Part of adapting the tunes for partial capo use involves reaching behind the capo to reach open strings on the lower frets.

220volt · #12 03-15-2010, 07:35 PM

Got it now.

Thanks

lpa53 · #13 03-15-2010, 08:11 PM

While I'd like to learn about alternate tunings, the only one I've ever used is dropped-d and perhaps that's not really a true alternate tuning. But just this week I did come across the issue of playing behind the capo that you mentioned.

I wanted to re-learn a dropped-d Don McLean song I'd played years ago in college and in the process remembered how difficult one of the stretches was. It was bad way back then, and it's really no fun now! While I never would have even thought of this at that time, I decided to fake a dropped-d by capoing only 1-5 at the second fret. The stretch is now no longer there and luckily the key is still in my vocal range.

Next I tried some other dropped-d capoed in the same position and found, as you did, that notes I needed were now below the capo.

Then a little voice inside was telling me I was "cheating" if I did something different, as well as unusual (at least for me), for just this one song. But I countered that voice saying that it was the music that mattered, and not the technique used to produce it.

When you get older, you have to adapt. I won't use this idea too often but for this one song, it does the trick. And I'm thinking it'll open me up to other possibilities I hadn't thought of trying before.

yanks4life · #14 03-15-2010, 08:34 PM

try tuning to DADGAD and then just slide up and down on the G string like 12th G 2nd G etc and sturm the open strings.

walternewton · #15 03-15-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lpa53

I decided to fake a dropped-d by capoing only 1-5 at the second fret.

"Simulated Drop D" by capoing 1-5 at the 2nd fret is a nice partial capo technique to play around with (of course you actually sound in E, unless the entire guitar is detuned).

You can play a I chord with a 000232 shape that's much fuller sounding than your typical xx0232 shape in standard tuning - yet retain an easy to play 320003 shape with the root in the bass for the IV chord; a simple example of how partial capoing can give you some neat tricks.