#1
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Is it "Cheating" to add effects (reverb etc.)
I guess this is a philosophical question. No doubt I think some videos on YouTube should really good but I know (I have asked) that the "dry" recording gets effects added in post-production. On the other hand, I hear some that are straight from a cell phone to Facebook and they are surprisingly good.
Maybe this is a dumb question. Maybe the only thing that matters is one's personal preference. But I imagine any "name" acoustic guitarist who records solo instrumental guitar does this as a matter of course. Guys like John Renbourn, Bert Jansch, Tommy Emmanuel and so forth. |
#2
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Cheating? Cheating how? ...on what?
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#3
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I'm pretty sure all the guys you mentioned use reverb. I know I do in my recordings.
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#4
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You’re right, it’s definitely a matter of philosophy. Of which mine is that live performance is like a play being put on in a theater, and recording is more like making a movie. Meaning I feel like it’s my job to make something a little larger than life.
But even if you’re shooting for something that could be popularly conceived as a very “natural" sounding, you’re likely going to have to do some stuff to it get it that way, as a microphone or two, placed ten inches away from a guitar is not the same thing as hearing a guitar in a natural space. And ironically, in many cases, you pull that mic way back and it could even worse. Sometimes we add things like reverb to make things sound more like they’re actually happing in a real room because the dry recorded sound can being jarring unnatural sounding -sometimes even in a "nice" room. You might do the same thing with light compression because the microphone may processes transients different than human ears in a room.. As for “cheating,” I’ll just say that when that word gets applied to guitar playing itself I always like to respond that music is not a sport, it is an art. And I feel the same way with recording -if you need to do many takes and a whole lot of editing to make a great sounding recording, fantastic. Do it because you’re making art, follow your muse. If that bothers the consumer it says more about them than the artist. |
#5
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Even the best recordings usually fail to capture the true natural sound of a guitar. Some enhancements help create a more musical experience and may help bring the listener's experience closer to what the artist hears when playing. But if you're making a recording, the goal is presumably to have the listener enjoy listening. The recording is the art. Make it however you need to to create a musical experience.
I don't believe in "cheating" when it comes to art. Is it cheating if a photographer color-corrects an image? Is it cheating to crop the photo to make the composition pleasing? What is "correct" anyway, since the camera inevitably fails to capture the same experience the eye sees. Look at a great sunset sometime, and then snap a photo with your phone? Does it capture what you actually experienced in person, or does it need some adjustment to even come close? And will a little flat snapshot in your phone ever match the 3D experience you actually had? And even if the photographer adds some obvious filter effects to create a dramatic look that could never happen in real life, is that "cheating" or is it creating art?
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#6
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Outstanding reply
Doug said everything that I was thinking, but more precisely and clearly than I could have done.
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I am here to learn. |
#7
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I actually like what Eric said better than my comment. Music isn't an athletic competition. It's not about proving you can do 100 pushups, or how many notes you can play, at least not the music I like.
The concept of recording as an art form in its own right, rather than a passive capturing of audio, has been around since maybe the 60s anyway. Earlier, they'd stick a mic in front of a band, and that was it - and of course, that failed miserably at capturing the magic someone would have heard in person. Then we started getting overdubbing, effects, stereo micing techniques, and more. Most bands these days (and by "these days", I mean the last 50-60 years, weren't even all in the studio at the same time, in spite of what the recording suggests. Compared to that, a little reverb on a guitar isn't worth mentioning.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#8
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People say using a capo is cheating - these are people who don't actually understand music theory.
People say using chorus or reverb is cheating - because they don't understand acoustics. People say using delay or phase or wah or distortion is cheating because they dont understand production. Basically the only common denominator is that the term "cheating", in my experience, always comes from a place of ignorance (as in lack of information or knowledge)
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Fazool "The wand chooses the wizard, Mr. Potter" Taylor GC7, GA3-12, SB2-C, SB2-Cp...... Ibanez AVC-11MHx , AC-240 |
#9
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Doug and Eric:
Thanks for your very thoughtful perspectives. I like the distinctions you made about a play v film, and the nature of art. You are major league players and your views are particularly valuable. As far as I am concerned, my question has been answered and I do not view the use of reverb, compression, etc. as "cheating" in service of art and a pleasant listening experience. I love the sound of a well recorded acoustic, and if a dose of effects helps so be it. I guess it is a matter of degree though; I only like a pinch of salt on my steak, not too much. And when it comes to effects and such, just think of what goes on in the electric guitar world! Being a good recording engineer is an art unto itself! |
#10
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I agree with the consensus reached here. But ... I recall in my early days of playing trying to use effects to cover up my lack of ability.
Cheating. Definitely cheating.
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Goodall, Martin, Wingert |
#11
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First and foremost like others have said ----Art is not a competition
Therefore terminology like "cheating" is not really applicable (even though I understand the usage in the OP), BUT I think it perhaps presets the wrong overall tone to the question. Undoubtedly we humans constantly try to shoe horn art into a competitive frame work, all the awards shows for example (supposedly to simply acknowledge "excellence") also even if unintentionally, serve to inject the competitive aspect... OK so that aside I admit I was confused a bit by the wording in the OP's second sentence .. But yes the use of FX is totally and only "subjective preference" PERIOD ...... there is no cheating or playing by the rules, there is right or wrong ... there is just totally subjective preference and personal opinion. For Example IMO I have yet to hear any "straight from a cell phone recording" that sounded even "remotely good" let alone "surprisingly good" ,,,,,,but it is all in the ear of listener so YMMV .......................................juss' sayin' And the same " it's only personal preference" applies to "what goes on in the electric world" as well And I agree with Fazool,,,, you hear the same friggin' nonsense about using a capo, or using an under saddle pic up, or the supremely ignorant, self anointed pronouncement..... "I only play originals" again as if it's some convoluted competition............... mann does it get tedious. OK rant over ----carry on
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 Last edited by KevWind; 11-13-2021 at 08:48 AM. |
#12
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Putting reverb or other enhancement effects on a recording is like putting a frame on a picture you painted. It makes for a better presentation and a more enjoyable listen.
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Collings OM-1 Traditional Santa Cruz OM Santa Cruz 00 Martin OM-28V |
#13
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When I listen to music I am not concerned about how it got to where it is, just the final product.
I do think for retailers who sell guitars and post recordings of them online that they should keep them pretty much raw recordings for potential buyers to listen to.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#14
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When I’m playing my guitar...
I’m trying to communicate what I’m hearing in my soul..... If it takes assistance via certain influences,(amp,reverb...?) and I achieve my goal, I think I’m ok. BUT IF, I’m lip, er..pick-syncing someone else? Now that’s cheating..(ymmv) I’m not a good example tho, I just do what I want to......
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Bud “Time flies, Love stays “ |
#15
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Quote:
One time, before I recorded a radio interview with a famous country singer, her manager called to make certain there would be no photography taking place. "Ms. McEntyre doesn't just roll out of bed in the morning looking like Ms. McEntyre, y'know?" |