Good sounding through PA under $400???

JBBB · #1 04-08-2018, 03:56 PM

I just started to use an acoustic guitar on stage beside my electric.

Yesterday I spent 6h at my local music store comparing all acoustics they had in stock with built in pickup in my price range .

I ended up with a Cort for $350. The guitar has a really sweet tone, easy action and stays perfectly in tune. For my ears playing through an acoustic amp it had the best sound of what they had under $400.

I took it to my gig last night playing it through the PA system.

I wasn't to happy with the sound, it really sounded clanky and no sustain. I mean no tone ringing, just the first attack and then gone. I was struggling! Built in EQ adjustments didn't help. Sounded flat the best. Adding reverb gave me feedback.

I got 30 day money back guarantee, so I have to find another option quick.

I'm looking for a acoustic max $400 that sounds decent through a system, doesn't matter if it doesn't sound as good unplugged. I has to have a cutaway!

Any suggestions?

Tks,
JBBB

jricc · #2 04-08-2018, 04:02 PM

The Yamaha FG and FS series are really good guitars for not a lot of money. Here's the dreadnought with electronics
https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guit...%20fgx&index=3

YeOldRocker · #3 04-08-2018, 04:22 PM

Since you liked your guitar in the store, presumably through an acoustic amp, I'm guessing your problem was the PA system, or your inability to fuss with it onstage. Guitars that sound decent through an onboard pickup won't necessarily sound good through the amplification system, depending on its settings, etc.

Rather than change out your guitar, you might consider an acoustic amp as a monitor - maybe the one the Cort sounded good through - and then use a direct-out to whatever PA you're saddled with. In your price range, you're probably going to keep running into this problem - even pricey guitars with onboard electronics can sound awful through a lousy system. Better to control it onstage and send out the best signal you can to the board.

Methos1979 · #4 04-08-2018, 05:42 PM

It's not the guitar. You played it through an acoustic amp in the store which is basically a preamp on a little PA. You need some sort of simple preamp/DI out from your guitar to go straight into the PA. Lot's of choices in the various price ranges. Fire-Eye Red-Eye is good as is the PARA DI. And they up from there. A lot of people will buy a small acoustic amp (think Fishman Loudbox Mini) and get a good tone out of that, use it as a stage monitor and then DI out the back of that to the PA.

lschwart · #5 04-08-2018, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBBB

I just started to use an acoustic guitar on stage beside my electric.

Yesterday I spent 6h at my local music store comparing all acoustics they had in stock with built in pickup in my price range .

I ended up with a Cort for $350. The guitar has a really sweet tone, easy action and stays perfectly in tune. For my ears playing through an acoustic amp it had the best sound of what they had under $400.

I took it to my gig last night playing it through the PA system.

I wasn't to happy with the sound, it really sounded clanky and no sustain. I mean no tone ringing, just the first attack and then gone. I was struggling! Built in EQ adjustments didn't help. Sounded flat the best. Adding reverb gave me feedback.

I got 30 day money back guarantee, so I have to find another option quick.

I'm looking for a acoustic max $400 that sounds decent through a system, doesn't matter if it doesn't sound as good unplugged. I has to have a cutaway!

Any suggestions?

Tks,
JBBB

Was it the band's PA or the venue's? Who was running it, and how were your plugged into it? Also: what was the monitor set up, if there was one, and do you know what sort of pickup system the Cort has?

Louis

JBBB · #6 04-08-2018, 09:13 PM

Thank you for all your suggestions. The Cort came with a built in piezo system. The store didn't have any Yamaha's, I'll go to another store and check them out. The PA system at the gig was "d&b" state of the art with Midas board, also "d&b" monitors. Everything else sounded excellent. I went through the DI output of my Peterson Stomp Classic Tuner straight into the PA. It just seems to me that the pickup of the Cort just doesn't pick up a lot of "tone". Probably the pickups of the other cheap guitars at the store don't either. Because the Cort's tone seemed to be the richest. I have to go to the store and compare the Cort with some other more pricy guitars to see what the difference is. I didn't check any of the expensive guitars over an amp. I picked up a Taylor for $3.999 and played it unplugged. Another world. But I didn't plug it in. I guess I have to compare the Cort to the next higher price segment and check what the difference is.

JBBB · #7 04-08-2018, 09:19 PM

Also what picks do you recommend for the acoustic played over the piezo pickup to get a rich tone with fat and clear bottom? I play Fender Extra Heavy on the electric, but thinner picks seem to be better for the acoustic? Any recommendations?

Tahitijack · #8 04-08-2018, 09:20 PM

I know I'll get pitchforks and torches at my front door, but the almost always reliable acoustic through a PA is an Ovation. The basic models are within you budget.

BTW congratulations on your ability to spend 6 hours at that guitar shop. Yikes, I can't do it.

frankhond · #9 04-08-2018, 11:28 PM

You don’t say if you tried the guitar through a PA in the store. If that’s how you plan to use the guitar, that’s how you need to test it. An acoustic amp will have a built in preamp, a PA won’t.

By your description, something could be wrong with the pickup in the guitar, or there is an impedance mismatch between pickup and PA input.

The impedance issue is often what makes a guitar sound crap through a PA, and the prime reason why you need a preamp, which will take care of that problem for you and let you eq the sound further. The direct out on a tuner does not constitute a preamp.

Some guitars have a good preamp built in but a cheaper guitar probably doesn’t. Go back with the cort and test through a PA in the store. Make them make it sound good one way or the other. If they can’t, get something else. But a preamp might be the ticket.

JBBB · #10 04-09-2018, 12:04 AM

OK, I will check out preamps at the store running them trough a PA speaker. What would be a good choice for a reasonable price? The preamp shouldn't be twice as much as the guitar

Chriscom · #11 04-09-2018, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tahitijack

I know I'll get pitchforks and torches at my front door, but the almost always reliable acoustic through a PA is an Ovation.

They really are great for that.

lschwart · #12 04-09-2018, 08:44 AM

The DI out of your tuner is taking care of balancing and impedance--although with an active onboard pickup, impedance shouldn't really be an issue. I preamp might give you better control of your EQ, which can help, but it's not going to improve the tone in-and-of itself to any appreciable degree, and it's not going to add resonance and sustain. Reverb does help give a pickup a more natural sound, but reverb in the monitors can certainly lower the gain before feedback threshold. Watch out for the monitor placement, too, however. You don't want the monitor sound facing right up at the guitar top in wedge position. Getting the monitor off to the side or behind you might buy you a little more volume with the reverb on. So might a sound hole cover.

For good EQ on a preamp, the Baggs Para Acoustic DI and Venue DI are good choices (there are lots of used Para DI's around). So is the Fishman Platinum Pro. Look for something with semi paramedic mid EQ.

It may be, however, that at gig volume the PA is just exposing the weaknesses of the pickup. Close up to an acoustic amp at a store is a very different situation.

Louis

JBBB · #13 04-09-2018, 06:23 PM

Much thanks for all your help! I'll get busy and take my sound to the next level

sdelsolray · #14 04-09-2018, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBBB

...
Any suggestions?

Tks,
JBBB

A suggestion:

Learn about signal chain hygiene so you can determine what works well and what doesn't. For example, the fact the Cort worked well with an acoustic guitar amp in the store and not so well with a PA system at a venue has nothing to do with the guitar and has everything to do with the electronic signal chains you used. What were they? Precisely?

JBBB · #15 04-09-2018, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

A suggestion:

Learn about signal chain hygiene so you can determine what works well and what doesn't. For example, the fact the Cort worked well with an acoustic guitar amp in the store and not so well with a PA system at a venue has nothing to do with the guitar and has everything to do with the electronic signal chains you used. What were they? Precisely?

I think I know what fooled me at the store. When I checked out the guitars at the store I played through an acoustic amp. But it was not really turned up high because I didn't want to blow up the store. So I heard the natural acoustic tone mixed with the tone from the amp. Now on stage it is quite loud, you don't hear the natural acoustic tone from the guitar at all, only the naked sound from the pickup that comes through the PA and monitors. And what I hear doesn't feel right. No meat in the soup. So how do you avoid this glitch checking out an acoustic guitar at the store that you need for stage? Play it through headphones?