Taylor Expression System 2 (Movable piezos?)

[Fusion01]

I read on Taylor's site about the ES2 system and there are 3 hex screws to adjust the piezos to your liking. I don't see how you're able to move them at all and what's up with Taylor being so vague about this? With this and the mottled "ebony" fretboard I may have to scrap going in the direction of a Taylor guitar just for the sake of finding a 1 7/8" neck width acoustic/electric.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Fusion01

I read on Taylor's site about the ES2 system and there are 3 hex screws to adjust the piezos to your liking. I don't see how you're able to move them at all and what's up with Taylor being so vague about this? With this and the mottled "ebony" fretboard I may have to scrap going in the direction of a Taylor guitar just for the sake of finding a 1 7/8" neck width acoustic/electric.

I haven't adjusted them but don't you just need the right screwdriver to fit the screws? Not trying to be rude but it seems easy enough to get the right screwdriver to fit the screws. Actually most places like Ikea include these screwdrivers with their products. I would think that clock wise tightens and counter clockwise loosens the screws.

[Fusion01]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I haven't adjusted them but don't you just need the right screwdriver to fit the screws? Not trying to be rude but it seems easy enough to get the right screwdriver to fit the screws. Actually most places like Ikea include these screwdrivers with their products. I would think that clock wise tightens and counter clockwise loosens the screws.

Yeah I get how to tighten or loosen hex screws but it is not obvious how you can move the pickup from the top of the guitar as the screws have a single hole they are in and would be limited to how they would move left/right or closer/ further from the saddle. What actually moves on the top? The screws themselves seem stationary other than being able to be loosened or tightened. What am I missing here?

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Fusion01

Yeah I get how to tighten or loosen hex screws but it is not obvious how you can move the pickup from the top of the guitar as the screws have a single hole they are in and would be limited to how they would move left/right or closer/ further from the saddle. What actually moves on the top? The screws themselves seem stationary other than being able to be loosened or tightened. What am I missing here?

The pickup/transducers are placed on the back of the saddle. The screws simply loosen or tighten the transducers. Nothing really moves on top, the screws are just for how much tension you want the transducers to have on the saddle. Maybe I am stating what you already know but I don't fully get what you are trying to understand. Have you watched the ES2 demoes or looked at diagrams?

[Fusion01]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

The pickup/transducers are placed on the back of the saddle. The screws simply loosen or tighten the transducers. Nothing really moves on top, the screws are just for how much tension you want the transducers to have on the saddle. Maybe I am stating what you already know but I don't fully get what you are trying to understand. Have you watched the ES2 demoes or looked at diagrams?

Have seen sound demos but nothing showing the pickups being moved at all. I was expecting the pickups to be repositioned on thre soundplate themselves since it is held in by screws and not glued in like say a K&K Mini Pure. I was thinking you'd be able to alter where the transducer is placed on the soundboard by doing something with the hex screws? Again this is why I am saying Taylor is a bit vague on what it actually does.

Taylor's sites only mention of the 3 hex screws is this:

"Three pickup sensors are installed behind the saddle, through the bridge, with three tiny Allen screws that calibrate the position of the sensors in relation to the saddle."

Can we agree this is vague? My take by the above quote is once you loosen the screw you can reposition the pickup(transducer/piezo/sensor or whatever other name they decide to rename it to next week). Am I wrong?

You mention the screws just loosen or tighten the piezo to the saddle but they aren't on the saddle at all but behind it and I'm assuming (since they are so vague but giuve no actual pictures of how it is installed) it is just like a K&K Mini setup with 3 transducers but their unique spin on it is the transducers are placed behind the saddle where most transducers usually place them right beneath the saddle location. Also I don't think there would be any audible difference whether the transducer was tightened or loosened to the soundboard other than if it's not tight enough the volume will be lowered which is undesirable. I'm still thinking you're supposed to be able to move the transducers left/right or forward/backward somehow. That's how I would expect it to work.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Fusion01

Have seen sound demos but nothing showing the pickups being moved at all. I was expecting the pickups to be repositioned on thre soundplate themselves since it is held in by screws and not glued in like say a K&K Mini Pure. I was thinking you'd be able to alter where the transducer is placed on the soundboard by doing something with the hex screws? Again this is why I am saying Taylor is a bit vague on what it actually does.

Well the ES2 is not a Soundboard transducer like the K&K, I think that's what's confusing you. There are three transducers but instead of attaching to the underside of the bridge plate, they are pushed up against the back of the saddle. The screws tighten the transducer to the saddle. Here's a pic:

http://kgmmusic.com/zine/wp-content/uploads/es21.jpg

[Fusion01]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Well the ES2 is not a Soundboard transducer like the K&K, I think that's what's confusing you. There are three transducers but instead of attaching to the underside of the bridge plate, they are pushed up against the back of the saddle. The screws tighten the transducer to the saddle. Here's a pic:

http://kgmmusic.com/zine/wp-content/uploads/es21.jpg

Thanks for the picture that does explain it better than their own wording which is laughable. So basically it is still like a traditional UST piezo only instead of under the saddle it is behind it and still is pressed against it, which many people claim once the saddle is allowed to vibrate freely (without a piezo smashed under the saddle or in this case pressed up against the back of it) the sound is improved. I can't really see this as being much of an improvement at all and I would still venture to guess a K&K Mini would sound superior to this.

[Fusion01]

Also is there any tech geek explanation from Taylor on how this works and the components of it? I don't really get what the white apparatus is that holds the copper colored piezo near the saddle. Or is the white thing the actual piezo? So many questions so few answers.

[martingitdave]

Think of it as a hybrid between a K&K (3 transducers) and UST but installed on its side behind the saddle. ES2 is a better mouse trap, in my opinion. The screws are off center, so you are pressing them closer to the saddle with each 1/4 turn.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Nick84]

It's a 0.50 hex tool that you use to adjust it. I contacted Taylor a few weeks back about the ES-B on my big baby and they are both adjusted the same

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by Fusion01

Also is there any tech geek explanation from Taylor on how this works and the components of it? I don't really get what the white apparatus is that holds the copper colored piezo near the saddle. Or is the white thing the actual piezo? So many questions so few answers.

From what I understand it is merely a development of existing piezo-electric technology. Traditional under saddle pickups have to be under pressure in order to produce an even signal - from what I remember, an uneven saddle will produce a stronger signal where the saddle does not push down as much on the pickup.

Taylor's reasoning is that by placing the sensors on the side of the saddle the pressure exerted can be adjusted and doesn't need to be as tight. One of the reasons for piezo quack is the uneven relationship between string volume and signal level and the reasoning is that less pressure on the pickup produces more signal and less extreme level spikes (quack!). As the ES2 has 3 contact points on the saddle it makes sense to be able to adjust the amount each section presses onto the saddle. If it sounds good and balanced out of the box then don't adjust it.

I was pretty sure there was more info on their website than you've been able to find - if you're really curious check out some of the videos explaining the ES2.

The K&K pure mini is also piezo-electric but as they are not under pressure at all they give a more even and stronger response. I would argue that any level differences are due to positioning during installation, or sloppy glueing (I had this problem, replied one sensor and it made a big difference!).

[MikeBmusic]

As to your statement on the 'mottled' ebony fingerboards - if you read up on the Taylor website (and they have had numerous articles about it in 'Wood & Steel their quarterly magazine), the decision to use this wood has meant being able to offer a sustainable wood product, lower costs and help the villages harvesting and processing the wood. Previous methods were wasting a large percentage of the trees. The company set up (by Taylor) still sells the non-variegated ebony to other guitar manufacturers who want it, but at a higher price. Note that some manufacturers apply a dark stain to their fingerboards to give the common 'all dark' look.

[Herb Hunter]

Originally Posted by Fusion01

I read on Taylor's site about the ES2 system and there are 3 hex screws to adjust the piezos to your liking. I don't see how you're able to move them at all and what's up with Taylor being so vague about this?

In trying to understand how you came to misapprehend the Expression System 2, I went back to Taylor’s website and reread their description of how it. Frankly, I don’t see how you got the impression that the pickups could be repositioned.

From Taylor’s website:

Expression System® 2

The Taylor Expression System® 2 (ES2) is a revolutionary pickup design that delivers the latest in Taylor’s ongoing innovation in acoustic guitar amplification. The heart of the Expression System 2 is Taylor’s patented behind-the-saddle pickup, which features three uniquely positioned and individually calibrated pickup sensors. The location of the sensors enables a more dynamic range of acoustic sound to be captured than ever before. Together with Taylor’s custom-designed “professional audio”-grade preamp, this system produces exceptional amplified tone and responsiveness. On stage through a PA, plugged into your favorite acoustic amplifier, or direct into recording software, the Expression System 2 faithfully conveys the voice of your Taylor guitar.

Behind the ES2 Design: Rethinking the Piezo Pickup

For decades, piezo-electric transducers have been positioned under the saddle of a guitar based on the long-held belief that the string and top vibration cause the saddle to “bounce” up and down. But Taylor’s electronics team, led by developer David Hosler, discovered that the vertical movement is actually heavily restricted, and that the saddle gets “locked down” due to the string tension’s downward pressure. That’s why a traditional under-saddle pickup with piezo-electric crystals often responds with a sound often characterized as thin, brittle, brash or synthetic, especially with more aggressive playing.

The saddle’s natural range of movement as the guitar is being played is actually back and forth like a pendulum. That revelation led Taylor’s design team to relocate the crystals from under the saddle to behind it. The new positioning enables the crystals to respond more naturally to the guitar’s energy as it is transferred through the saddle. Three pickup sensors are installed behind the saddle, through the bridge, with three tiny Allen screws that calibrate the position of the sensors in relation to the saddle.

Like the original Expression System, the ES2 features the same volume and tone control knobs. The preamp is similar but with a slightly different gain structure. As a result it will be about 25 percent hotter, which is more in line with other pickups. This makes it plug-and-play friendly both for artists and live sound mixers.

https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...ssion-system-2