Should I use the effects loop on my DI or my amp?

[sbpark]

My set up is pretty simple. Guitar > Tuner > DI > Holy Grail Reverb > Amp.

Both the DI (LR Baggs Venue) and the amp (California Blonde) have effects loops. Which effects loop would be the best place to put the Holy Grail? DI or amp, or does it not really make any difference? My guess is it would be better on the amp, since it's after the DI and preamp of the amp.

[pieterh]

Originally Posted by sbpark

My set up is pretty simple. Guitar > Tuner > DI > Holy Grail Reverb > Amp.

Both the DI (LR Baggs Venue) and the amp (California Blonde) have effects loops. Which effects loop would be the best place to put the Holy Grail? DI or amp, or does it not really make any difference? My guess is it would be better on the amp, since it's after the DI and preamp of the amp.

It will make a difference - it isn't always as straight forward as one would think. The effects loop in the LR Baggs is a series loop which means as soon as you connect something to the return input then the original signal is broken. What this means is that the balance of effects to dry signal needs to be done in the pedal or any other effects you connect in the loop. It also means that the signal fed to the FX loop is after the preamp (eq etc) section of the Venue, which is useful of course.

The California Blonde on the other hand is a side-chain (or parallel) effects loop where the original signal remains between the pre- and power-amp stages. Set your reverb at maximum effect level (ie no dry signal at all) and then use the amp's own Effects Blend control to get the right balance between guitar and effect. When I had a Marshall electric amp this was my favourite way of connecting delay-based effects - though I would have compressor and overdrive/distortion between the guitar and the amp. My current guitar amp's fx loop is wired in series so I have everything on a pedalboard between guitar and amp.

So either option may give you the best results for you, just be aware of the different setups: mix dry and effect in the pedal with the Venue, effect only if using the amp's fx loop.

[sbpark]

Originally Posted by pieterh

It will make a difference - it isn't always as straight forward as one would think. The effects loop in the LR Baggs is a series loop which means as soon as you connect something to the return input then the original signal is broken. What this means is that the balance of effects to dry signal needs to be done in the pedal or any other effects you connect in the loop. It also means that the signal fed to the FX loop is after the preamp (eq etc) section of the Venue, which is useful of course.

The California Blonde on the other hand is a side-chain (or parallel) effects loop where the original signal remains between the pre- and power-amp stages. Set your reverb at maximum effect level (ie no dry signal at all) and then use the amp's own Effects Blend control to get the right balance between guitar and effect. When I had a Marshall electric amp this was my favourite way of connecting delay-based effects - though I would have compressor and overdrive/distortion between the guitar and the amp. My current guitar amp's fx loop is wired in series so I have everything on a pedalboard between guitar and amp.

So either option may give you the best results for you, just be aware of the different setups: mix dry and effect in the pedal with the Venue, effect only if using the amp's fx loop.

I did discover that last night. Not sure how it skipped my mind that the effects loop on the amp is parallel! In a way I kind of like that. After posting I did mess around with different setting on the pedal and blending it in with the knob on the amp. Before reading this this morning I tried exactly what you recommended, setting the reverb to full effect and then using the amp to mix the two, but the it didn't sound that great. Not sure how to explain it, but with the Holt Grail see to around 1 or 2 o'clock and then blessing in the effects loop signal sounded best. Very natural sounding and perfect!

[pieterh]

Glad you got a result you like! There is no right or wrong if it works for you! There are pros and cons to both variants of fx loop - though on a big stage I tend to still have my guitar going straight to pedal board and then to amp, otherwise I need to have at least 2 more leads: guitar lead to tuner, distortion and compressor pedals, then lead to amp input, then lead from loop out back to the delay fx and then lead back to loop return.

There is probably a simpler way to do this of course but as I said, I'm happy with everything in series on my pedal board, not least because the fx loop on my Duncan tube is series. I think...

On a side note, a friend of mine who is excellent at building and servicing amps has fixed the same problem in three different amps we sent him: an old Peavey Basic 60, am Ampeg SVT3-pro and my Duncan Tube 84-40. Over time the contacts on the fx loop inputs and outputs can become corroded. The signal that is rooted through this circuitry degrades or can disappear altogether. In some cases using a lead to reconnect between the out and return can fix the problem for rehearsal or a gig, and if this happens then it is an easy job to clean up the contacts so the original signal path will work again. By using the fx loop on a regular basis you may never have to worry about this.